Wellington vs Charterhouse..............?

[SurreyMama]

Hi there!

I'm new to this but would really appreciate any insightful comment or experience please.

DS1 has been offered places at Wellington and Charterhouse and, whilst I feel we have broad sense of the difference between the places, I'm struggling to come to a conclusion on purely the academic side....

Even using the dreaded tables is virtually impossible as one does IB and the other Pre-U's and recently started IB as well. Mybe GSCEs? But the differences on these are always so slim, and seem irrelevant when we are looking a number of years away into the future of course (he won't go until 2013).

He is near the top of the group in his year academically and will probably attempt a Scholarship (though no expectations here) so I am interested in the upper end of their academic abilities.

What I have found slightly odd with both schools to be honest is that, despite very different entrance procedures (CH - 'old school' style headmaster's report, WE - full on testing with a 4 to 1 ratio for places), they have both made offers to distinctly below average students in DS's year. That has made me a little concerned over the academic standards.

My impression is of CH as a solid option, getting 20 odd into Oxbridge etc every year (one narrow measure, I know) whilst WE is coming from a low base but is maybe at a broadly similar level now, but maybe will pass CH as the intake quality goes up each year (it is certiably the 'in' school in our area)?????

Any thoughts most welcome please!

SMx

Which one does DS prefer ? I would go with the one at which he feels he would be happiest.

He likes them both, though we haven't done the 'house selection' bit at Wellington yet.

So we are in a nice position on tthat issue - just need to know whether I should be steering him one way or the other!

Both schools can get an able child a clean sweep of A's/A*'s.

I would concentrate on the other stuff.

I think WC has better PR than CH, so beware of that! Will Dr S still be around at WC in a year or two? He has implemented what he was mandated to do (bedding down the IB and MYP and turning it from the bullying military boys school to a fully co-ed school) - is it time to move on and write more books or get involved in education at government level?

Does your DS like sport? If he goes to Wellington he had better like rugby, whilst CH is a football school. I think CH is more nurturing with more pastoral care vs Wellington, which is more sink or swim, with pastoral care being report marks every 3 weeks and threats to do better or you will be asked to leave (although if your DS is at the top end academically that shouldn't worry you). They are both weekly boarding schools (despite what they say), so does that influence your decision? One is boys only until 6th form, one is fully co-ed, do you have a view on that? I felt WC had a more highly charged atmosphere,was more competitive, was more dog eat dog....but that was just me.

An able child, which yours is, will do well anywhere, so agree with grovel - concentrate on other stuff. I don't think you can choose a school based on entrance procedures - look at Radley - very old school entry procedure leading to a broad group of boys on entry with a 55% CE pass mark and 93% A*, A, B at A level. On the face of it that is more value added than the selective schools which are creaming off those 11year olds who can get 70% in a computer test. It's the quality of the teaching and the ability to catch those that fall and push those that fly that matters. What's your view on that at your two choices?

Choose a school with your heart not your head (well that 's what I was told anyway!!). Good luck!

Thanks for these thoughts.....

CH 'wins' on being closer, DS prefers footy, doing both IB and Pre U's (as it is not clear to me which will be the better currency) and less uncertainty over a possible change in the Head.

WE has more of DS's friends going, feels like it is on a strongly positive trajectory and is seemingly the 'one to go to' though maybe that is just the PR!

Hmm - having written that, it seems it should be CH eh!?

So, really nothing to choose between them academically?

When making a choice for my DS, where his friends are going doesn't come into it. He will make new friends, and he will keep in touch with those who are his real friends. CH has a longer academic track record, and you would expect WC's to be on the trajectory it's on given the selective entry pupils are now those doing public exams. The "one to go to" is just playground chatter and PR in my opinion. Make your own decision based on your DC's needs, hobbies and aspirations and what you want him to get out of the next 5 years at school. Also, maybe the "distinctly below average" children at your school have talents in areas other than the classroom that these schools are looking for, and that explains their offers. There's more to life than academia...

Starting at a secondary school is an opportunity for children to re-invent themselves. Being surrounded by lots of children from your last school makes that harder - so I'm with Milkshake on that one.

Thanks Milkshale and grovel (sounds like a BGT act!).

I'm talking a handful of friends, so enough to make the whole experience more comfortable at the off, but not too many to stop him flowering - likely to be different houses anyway.

Agreed there is more to life than academia - that's why he is going to one of these rather than RGS in Guildford. But the world is a harsh place these days and making the most of your brains gives you more options later, and counts for more than hill walking, playing in the second XV at rugby and underwater basket weaving eh!? Hence this e-mail thread.....................

SurreyMama, I've posted elsewhere that there is one important variable outside our control when we choose schools. We can't pick the other children who will join our children's house at the same time. A good bunch will make the whole experience so much more fun and rewarding. A bad bunch....

Indeed Grovel, so true!!!!!!

Just don't think you should be labelling other people's children "distinctly below average".......even at the schools you are talking about, someone's got to be in the bottom third, and in the grand scheme of things these are not "distinctly below average" children....Hopefully all children can make the most of their brains (whatever state they may be in) if parents find an appropriate school for them where they can flourish and fulfil their potential....and having hobbies and activities outside academia adds to your happiness and wellbeing and overall enjoyment in life....as they tell you at Wellington for 5 years..!! And we've gone full circle. (Not sure they have an underwater basket weaving club though....!!)

There is another thread about Wellington and sending girls there. You may want to look at that as it gives other people's views on the school too.

Milkshake - thanks.

Sorry, I just refuse to get caught up in the PC nonsense over this - I have another DS who is 'distinctly below average' and that's just fine, we will help him find his own path in life. If he got past some of these entrance tests, not only would I be amazed, but I would undertsand if more gifted children (academically) were left wondering what the selection priocess was all about!!

I'll look out for that other Wellington thread - many thanks!

I have a similar dilemma with DS1.
He has places at London day schools, but its only now we're asking the right questions and realise that CH (which we initially saw as a back up) may be the best fit for him.
My reasons against are 1, that CH don't sit GCSE Eng Lit, they have their own school cert instead (how arrogant is that?), and 2, having introduced pre-u a few years ago Ch are now introducing the IB. DS has an offer at KCS Wimbledon which is one of the top IB schools in the country.
The pros are really the unlimited sporting opportunities which you can only get at a boarding school.
Good Luck, its not easy.

KCS is such a good school (and does "do" sport) that I'd think pretty hard about paying the extra £12,000 a year just for "extra sport".
And our DS went to boarding school.

CH don't sit GCSE Eng Lit, they have their own school cert instead

I'm not sure it's arrogance. The GCSE English courses can be very pedestrian, hence part of the attraction of IGCSE as the syllabus can be a bit more interesting at times. If Charterhouse staff make up a course that catches the imagination of their boys better, then good for them.

Thank you to posters for such helpful advice - do any of you have such good knowledge about girls' boarding?!

Win Coll also don't do IGCSE in English Lit or history they have daily div classes covering both subjects it's non examined but there is weekly prep and the boys love it. What they cover is not constrained by any curriculum it also doesn't do their results any harm they only do the Pre U and this year nearly 40% went onto Oxbridge so I wouldn't let the lack of Eng Lit sway your decision.

All things being equal I would opt for the school offering Pre-U as they are confident to not stick with the safe crap that guarantees good league table results. I hate Wellington, well Sheldon actually, but I like the "harkness" approach that they use. This was first introduced by Phillps Exeter School, which is a superior school to Eton/Win Coll. I've always thought CH was more academic but it does have a slightly arrogant feel imo. As for a school offering places to below-average pupils - well they have to go somewhere and clearly these boys have something to offer, possibly more to offer than your son but not academics.

Oh dear - I do seem to have upset the PC lobby!

Of course below-average pupils 'have to go somewhere' - I just want to better understand why supposedly selective, academic schools are taking them!?

Some of these boys I know very well - they are not sporty, arty or anything else hence the question. I don't think pussy footing around these issues helps anyone imo............................

What did you want to know about girls and boarding?

I think it your perception of selective and academic that is wrong. The CE passmark for these schools is c60%...if it's academic selection you want try Eton, Winchester, St Pauls, Westminster etc. Their CE passmarks are 70%+

Not really - I never said they were the most selective did I? Just that they are.

And Wellington is no longer c60%!!! I would guess their Scholarship level is on a par with CE numbers for those schools you mention.

Below average is relative. A below average pupil at your son's prep school may be well above average at another prep school. Anyway I am as un PC as it gets but you shouldn't think selective means academically selective.

I do think your decision is difficult though. I am pro single sex but I do think CH pupils are arrogant and too many come from London. But the Pre-U is a better qualification and Sheldon seems to be more interested in bettering himself than looking at his school!

Yep - it is tricky.

I like the fact that CH does IB and Pre-U as I do agree with the thought that they suit different skills and potential career choices. BUT, some say you can't do both properly...............

I must say my obsevration on CH was less the London issue but how many were from Far East etc. As someone in admissions there said to me, 'we could fill this up every year with children from the 'developing' world'. I like the global element but there is a balance to be struck.

On Seldon, TBH, I like him as I like the way he talks about education - but I cannot decide on how much is bluff. Certainly the school has shot up the tables, but where next?

Decisions, decisions..................

If you like Sheldon then I would go for that then. It's probably the only reason I wouldn't and that's probably not a good reason! Google the harkness method.

Interestingly, although I agree with the overseas issue, I find my son seems to be best friends with boys from the Orient more than his White peers. Of course this may change at senior school if they all form their own cliques and talk in their own language. :/

Wellington all the way. So much better. Nothing between the two schools academically but a much nicer / rounder person comes outbox Wellington from my experience.