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Secondary education

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Original poster

ughhh! School advising DD to 'up' her number of A-levels because top Universities want them....

40 replies

NotnOtter · 18/10/2011 21:01

DD was just going to sit 4 A levels - she is pretty aspirational but can also be pretty lazy

She does want to do well and go somewhere good so will need to do well. We had advised her against ten zillion a levels thinking it is better to just do 3-4 and do well

School have today frowned on her decision not to do general studies and indicated critical thinking would be good.... they also suggested she maybe drop one of her current four (science /maths) subjects at AS and take up a subject which has no relevance to her future prospects.

Feel as if we are swimming against a tide as DD has tonight come home unsure about her previous convictions iyswim

Are we wrong in saying ' just do well at the four'??

OP posts:
Original poster
NotnOtter · 18/10/2011 21:02

they said critical thinking helpful for oxbridge applicants...?

OP posts:
JordanBaker · 18/10/2011 21:11

Pretty sure that's rubbish. General Studies definitely not required. There are some admissions tutors on MN though so hopefully one of them will come along soon to advise.

Bluestocking · 18/10/2011 21:13

There's some very clear advice here from a largish group of universities including Oxford and Cambridge - dating from February 2011 so not totally up-to-date, but their policies are unlikely to have changed radically since then.

irregularegular · 18/10/2011 21:18

I'm an Oxford admissions tutor for PPE and other Economics subjects. In my college/subject at least, we are interested in quality, not quantity. Do 3-4 A-levels is traditional subjects and do them well. Three is usually fine - I would only advise 4 if doing Further Maths, or if you want to do an extra, less academic subject ( or if you really, really can't choose, but I don't recommend this)

General Studies and critical thinking are essentially ignored. There are probably better ways to spend your time.

Not official advice and possibly specific to my subject/college.

Original poster
NotnOtter · 18/10/2011 21:18

thank you - will have a read of that

DD did say words to the effect of 'my mum says' and i think they kind of raised their eyebrows at her (!)

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Original poster
NotnOtter · 18/10/2011 21:21

thank you irregularegular - she is doing further maths so i think it will be four

DS said maybe critical thinking could help her if she is asked to sit a TSA (?) but he said doing well at a STEP might me harder and better to devote her energy to a good maths result in that?

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spiderpig8 · 18/10/2011 22:07

Am i right in thinking your DD is at SGH School?
At our school they do GS but don't spend any time on it at all.It's just really an A level in general knowledge, so no harm in it.

Milliways · 18/10/2011 22:13

DS is at a school where 23 boys went to Oxbridge last year, none did GS or CT. They do 4 AS levels and 3 A2s.

DD is at Cambridge, she did 4 A2's in straight subjects

Milliways · 18/10/2011 22:14

Sorry - at DS's school they do 3 or 4 A2's (don't all drop to 3)

chopchopbusybusy · 18/10/2011 22:21

In my experience schools can offer some really bad advice about university entrance. 3 or 4 good subjects at A2. If in doubt about which subjects are OK email the admissions tutor and ask. GS and CT are a waste of time.

chopchopbusybusy · 18/10/2011 22:24

That should of course read get your DD to email, don't do it for her!

NotJustClassic · 18/10/2011 22:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

senua · 18/10/2011 22:32

I agree with quality, not quantity.

However, I have heard people argue that CT is useful for scientists to prove that they can also demonstrate essay/communication skills. If DD did CT then I presume that it would be AS Level / Lower Sixth only, so that would leave her free to concentrate on STEP in Upper Sixth.

bbboo · 18/10/2011 22:32

strangely enough, was having a very similar conversation with my neice at the weekend. She goes to a very academic girls school in Surrey. They were told not to bother with critical thinking as it was a waste of time (if you were really desperate to do it, only do it to AS level apparently).Her school gets a high proportion of pupils into "good" universities, so do seem to know what they are talking about.

Original poster
NotnOtter · 18/10/2011 22:44

wow thank you all so much for the very clear advice

I am thinking that senuas advice may be good as have just looked up her course with her her on cambridge website and quite a few colleges ask for TSA

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ellisbell · 19/10/2011 14:31

NotnOtter your DS seems to have the right approach, better than the school. There are a few universities (including one or two Russell Group) that accept General Studies as an A level and slightly more that accept Critical Thinking as an AS level. Part of the TSA is like criticial thinking but the main reason for doing either/both is that it increases the school's average points per pupil and that pushes them up the league tables.

Outreach person for Oxbridge said quite clearly that you should only do more than 3 if it wouldn't prevent you getting good grades in 3. they do like to say a 4th subject to AS level. If looking at Maths top unis will expect further maths and probably STEP.

MindtheGappp · 19/10/2011 18:23

General Studies and Critical Thinking are pretty much ignored by top universities.

There is nothing wrong with Critical Thinking as a subject, but few students take it seriously. If they are studying a Science or Humanity, they should be able to think critically in those subjects.

Original poster
NotnOtter · 19/10/2011 21:16

thank you both for those insightful views

she is now perusing colleges to see if thhe ones that appeal need TSA - she may just read up on critical thinking without doing the paper...

she will stand firm with school - she's so good at being stubborn at home (!) just needs to transfer a little of that elsewhere!

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florist · 22/10/2011 20:02

What dreadful advice from the school - what sort of school is it?

Clearly using your daughter to boost their league table position.

Do three A2 levels 9with the extended essay if possible or 3 plus wide ranging reading

Original poster
NotnOtter · 22/10/2011 20:25

tis a good school florist but they also encouraged a LOT of GCSEs which we moaned about as DD was just not motivated enough and was looking for a good clutch of A*/A rather than a mass of slightly lower grades

School are now pushing extended project and we all think that the workload is too heavy for dd on top of the a-levels...

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hauntedstateofmind · 23/10/2011 09:38

My DD's school insists that all students do an Extended Project as well as their A levels. The IB students do an Extended Essay as part of their course. There is no General Studies or Critical Thinking, though the IB students obviously do TOK.

ellisbell · 23/10/2011 09:54

The extended project is a chance to explore one of their subjects in more depth and to look at an area outside the normal curriculum. That can be useful in showing they can work independently and is something to discuss at places that interview/ to put on a personal statement to show interest in a subject. It also, of course, increases the UCAS points and pushes the school up the league table again Hmm

It's possible to do most of the work out of term-time (unless your school require it to be done in term time) so you ought to seriously consider this one.

nbee84 · 23/10/2011 09:59

Doing the Extended Project can be a good thing. If she knows what she wants to do at uni (or even has a rough idea) then she can choose a project subject that is relevant (and should enjoy doing) and can then mention it in her personal assessment.

nbee84 · 23/10/2011 10:00

personal statement

scarevola · 23/10/2011 10:00

Back in those distant days when I was a pupil, in my school every A level candidate was entered for General Studies as a matter of routine. But other than including it in the mocks, it was not a taught subject - just a chance to show in examination what it thought we should all be capable of tackling based on the knowledge we all should be picking up in and around our chosen subjects and from an alert attitude to life in general.

It was made clear that no-one should rely on it for their main University offers though - even then it wasn't considered a "serious" subject - more of a "nice to have".

If the school is offering it on that basis, it's harmless. If they're diverting teaching time from the main subjects, then it may be more of a concern.