How many hours HW/night in Yr 7...and how do you help them tackle it?

[Solo2]

DTs - currently in Yr 6 - get about 1 hour's homework a night but a lot of that can be spread into the w/e too.

In Yr 7, the official number of hour's homework/night will be 2 hours every night, with an average of 3 subjects per night. There will still be some flexibility over the week/ w/e but it looks as if most children do end up doing the full 2 hrs per night to manage the work load (this is a v academic school BTW, so none of this is a surprise).

I was wondering if this was about average in terms of numbers of hrs/night for 11 yr olds? I was also wondering how best to support my twin sons with this volume of work (which wouldn't include additional musical instrument practice each night as well - in theory!)?

Currently in Yr 6, one DT is largely independent now, able to focus on organising his work, getting it done but is still often tired and needs to leave some till the w/e. So it mounts up. Other DT needs much more support in terms of getting down to it, presenting it in an acceptable way (slapdash/ get away with minimal effort sort of boy, as many are!) and staying 'on task'. Lots of w/es are taken up with homework staggered across the entire w/e and nothing much else and it's only going to get harder.

Occasionally, both get homework (usually maths) that they struggle with and need my support and can easily take 2 full hrs to do that homework alone on one night, although they're supposed to stop at one hr really.

I'm trying to plan for the following year when they're in the senior part of the school and wonder how others support their DCs (especially boys) at that stage? Do you force them to get it done from the minute they arrive home - or have a break first and some food? If we do that now, then they get too tired to tackel it later and so it mounts up and takes over the w/e.

Tell me your typical experiences with 11 yr olds and how to help them manage at least 2 hrs work after school - and possibly after an evening club too?

In yr 6 DD rarely had homework and, any that she did have, was just something like looking up xyz on the internet or finding out the answer to something.

Now, in her first term of secondary school, she has 1 piece of homework a week (a different subject each week) that is supposed to take 5 hours over the week, so in theory they do an hour a night.

oops forgot to include a bit about how we manage it...DD comes home with it, has 10 mins of enthusiasm where she'll complete a bit of it..... followed by 5 nights of "DD, do your homework"......"Why do I have to/its not fair"....followed by a Saturday or Sunday of her whinging about how there's too much to do ("Yes, thats because you've left it until the last minute") ...and so on.

From talking to the parents of her friends this seems to be the norm at the moment. Hopefully it will change as they get into the mindset of homework and everything else that comes with Yr 7 onwards.

I think that the school are pushing the government recommendations a bit here...but then they are recommendations.

Government recommendations with some useful info on the context of homework.

Those guidlines are expected to include reading and timestable practice type activities too which should be around 10 minutes per day at primary...so even in year 6 "proper" homework shouldn't exceed 20 minutes per day and many would argue that is still too much.

All schools should have a document outlining their homework policy and I have never seen a policy were the guidlines exceed the government recommendations (state schools). Perhaps ask to see the policy and challenge the school if the homework they are setting is exceeding that described by their own policy.

No the school isn't in London. If you choose this school, you're choosing an academic one with a certain amount of pressure, regular testing/ exams and it's not for children who wouldn't thrive in such an environment. DT2 certainly thrives.

DT1 has had some wobbles, especially last year, as he's more what I'd call a 'normal' boy - not a geeky/ eccentric/ genius type as some of the children are. A child who has a natural desire to be absorbed by academia, who's a bit of a boffin, a 'little professor type' (male or female) would really enjoy the school. Very very bright children who are more 'ordinary' in social ability and personality - would also thrive there.

It's the children who are bright but have to work v hard to reach their potential or those with some issue like cognitive processing problems (like DT1) or those who are only on the borderline of passing the entrance exams - who would struggle I think.

There are lots of children there who, for example, will have maths as a 'hobby' and the set maths homework will therefore be easy and quick to do and then they'll read further and practice further stuff much further advanced, just for fun/ pleasure or do some physics for fun, memorising facts or laws of physics for pleasure!

There are also lots of children there who happily do a full day's work, an after school club and then out of school clubs/ sports etc too and a couple of musical instruments too and are way ahead of their years. Some children are just born that way and others shaped by parents/ school etc.

My DTs would probably fall into the 'average' child category at that school (except DT2 who has inborn ability and interest in one subject and does it 'for fun' and always has). So they neither find the HW crippling - except occasionally, when it's masses of maths! - nor easy and quick.

You just wouldn't send a child there who didn't accept HW as a part of life and couldn't manage it, to a degree. My DCs even had HW at their pre-prep (a different school) from the age of 3.75. It's always been part of their lives really and sometimes they accept it more than other times. Currently, my DCs enjoy lots of school clubs but we've stopped out of school things for now and I'll see how this all goes as they progress - if they do - into Yr 7.

No words of advice really, but I have to say this is really depressing thread.

I'm very glad my son is not at your school.

This is his school "77% of students achieved the national benchmark figure of 5A-C grades including English and Maths. 83% of students achieved 5 A-C grades. 98% of students achieved 5A-G grades, 93.4% at least 1 A-C and 99% at least 1A-G. 24% of the entries achieved A or A grade and 8% of all grades were awarded an A. 70% of students achieved two or more A-C grades in Science."

It's a State school. My son is in year 8 and this w/e played rugby for the school yesterday morning then played outside the rest of the day and this morning played rugby for his club (back about 2pm). He spends no where near 2hrs a night, it probably averages out at less than 1hr a day. The time will come when he WILL have to spend more time studying, but I think 12 years old is too young. It would really sadden me for him to have to drop rugby, dance or scouts in order to focus on homework.

I have a very hands off approach and he's able to manage his own time - a very useful skill.

Oh it's not in London. That's ok then as we are only looking in London. FWIW DD's school is in the top ten nationally for results. Like seeker's DD's school, anything below an A*/A at GCSE (or iGCSE) is rare-usually only a scattering of Bs each year. And the girls achieve this with nowhere near the amount of homework you are talking about. Logically I think this means the school your DTs attend

1. have a less selective intake than your posts suggest or
2. is not teaching effectively during the school day or
3. is bowing to parental pressure for unnecessary amounts of HW

Honestly, they don't need to do that much if they are being well taught. I'd be rethinking if I was you. You all need to have a life beyond homework

I must admit that 2 hours a night for year 7 sounds way too much. How much homework will the children get in years 10 and 11?

And one hour a night for year 6 . DD's old primary school is a very high achieving school where most of the year 6 children got level 5s for all their subjects, but an hour's homework per night wasn't necessary to acheive that. There must be something lacking in the teaching.

DD is now in year 7 and they are supposed to do 10 minutes home learning for every hour of that subject, so if DD does 3 hours of maths in a week she should get 30 minutes homework.

But Solo- what is the reason given for all the homework? Seriously, I'm not being deliberately obtuse, but I just don't understand. There are plenty of people on here saying that their dc's schools have equally high expectations but without the homework. What value does your school's hw policy add?

Wow, one hour per night in year 6! My ds does 1-1 1/2 hours per night in year 7.

Seeker - I'm making an assumption about why the school give so much HW but that assumption is in order to promote independent learning at an early age and the 'work ethic'. I assume it's also to reinforce what they've done during the day - eg, recent HWs: in Maths they might do dividing and multiplying compound/mixed fractions and then do a couple of sheets more of those that night or in English, if they've been doing a lesson on the structure of sonnets, they're asked to write two original sonnets for HW that night, following the same structure.

In many ways, I'd rather they get 6 maths examples instead of 36 or one sonnet instead of 2. They also have regular 'revision' HW eg this w/e they have a Physics test coming up next week and have been asked to revise work covered this term on things like mass/ density and it's relationship with distance and gravitational force, in the context of learning about the solar system.

I'd also rather they give individual HW rather than whole class work, to strengthen any particular weak areas for one particular child but with 25/ 26 children to a class (quite high number for this stage in a fee-paying school), I expect they can't get the time to make it completely individual.

There may also be a parental expectation as the school probably has a lot of 'tiger mums' of all nationalities and a lot of children who already outside school are excelling at something nationally, whether that's a sport or maths etc. So a lot of parents are v ambitious and maybe the school responds to this work ethic by giving out lots of HW.

My own desire would be, as above, that there were shorter pieces of work directly related to that day's class work plus some individually targeted work for each child - eg more maths for my DCs but less English, with which they struggle less.

The other thing they've started to get a lot are mini projects lasting 2 weeks. I hate this kind of HW as you're left thinking that the child should do 2 weeks worth of work but DCs are telling me - no it's only one or two sheets with bullet points - and then you find that some children have done powerpoint presentation level work and other's half a side of bullet points copied straight from the internet! Presumably this kind of project based work mirrors the kind of way coursework is part of a curriculum now and it's not so 'final exam results on the day' testing anymore?

But why so much more than other schools?

Are there any famous people that have come out of this school?
What percentage of their leavers go onto Oxbridge, Russell or other Uni?
Please give some evidence that all that hard work from an early age is worthwhile?

I don't know about famous people coming out of the school as I haven't been interested in that. I do know of current parents who are famous - often in the academic field but not sure how their DCs will turn out! Not sure if 'fame' per se is a good measure of a good school though, as often the happiet and/ or the brightest people don't necessarily seek 'fame' per se.

What I do know is that it's academically selective rather than 'posh'. I think last yrs A level results indicated about 35% went to Oxbridge and the rest to Russell group Unis except maybe one or two to Unis outsie the Russell group.

I selected the school on academic success and the fact that academic achievement is counted way above social class/ material wealth. So far, my disappointment has been with the large class sizes and the fact that a recently gone co-ed school is still struggling to integrate the genders but they're still in the early days of transition from an all boys school to co-ed and our particular cohort is the largest cohort they ever had in the Prep part. So I like may other parents, think we've had a bit of a raw deal. But that's off topic for this thread.

I'm a bit surprised, but 35% isn't even that high a rate for leavers going to Oxbridge.

How does 2 hours a night homework for year 7s add value?

I think what is interesting is how much more your twins know already compared to my yr 7. His school is a "Science Specialist" secondary, yet so far he has had only one test. Yr 6 of his primary taught none of the physics you have described. Yr 6 certainly didn't teach sonnets. But we didn't have anythng like the pressure you describe homework wise. Yr 7 has come as a bit of a shock, but I think for a seasoned homeworker the homework he gets probably only works out at I hour a night...just he's not used to doing it efficiently.

So it may be a question of you "pays your money and you takes your choice" whatever the phrase is.

I used to spend hours at a private, highly academic, secondary doing homework. Very well. I don't remember it being particularly galling to have to do it, it just seemed normal. But although I got very good O'levels, my A-levels weren't so hot. The habit of homework is not necessarily something that continues into the teenage years, whatever people may claim
I don't think just keeping the nose to the grindstone guarantees success, academic schools have dropouts, just you never hear about them

I'm having trouble with your link ragged but 35% is actually an enormously high rate for leavers going to Oxford/ Cambridge and only about three schools regularly top that.

Nevertheless I'd question whether this level of oppression is worth it, even for that particular prize.

Also, that Physics! In Y6!

Anyhow, believe me, there are easier and pleasanter ways to facilitate children getting to a decent university which is laid back enough to encompass the evils of X-Box, TV (lots), no Grade 8's, hanging about, Facebook, dubious clubs and all that kind of stuff.

I'd have gone dippy with your kind of regime OP, it sounds truly dreadful and I genuinely feel for the kids.

Not your kids in particular but all kids at those sort of schools.

Anyway, who cares what the school claims to be, it's whether your particular dcs are going to be happy there.
Fwiw, a friend of mine said she thought private schools were a con (she sends her two sons private after a bad experience at state) because essentially she did half the teachingwork (getting her children to do enormous amounts of homework). Yes the academic results were much better, but she was paying the school to set her work out of hours!!! Yet she still continues to send them to a private school whilst doing a lot of silent muttering/worrying about 11plus exams, tutoring etc. It seems to be a bit of a chicken and egg situation. The private schools have just upped the parental ante, making it impossible to challenge their policies on the basis that: you are sending your child there so you have buy into their whole ethos of hw etc, without challenging it, because this is going to guarantee their academic success. And round it goes, causing considerable parental stress.

That link is to a Guardian article which has another link to a spreadsheet listing the % of leavers that go to "selective schools", ie Oxbridge. Plenty of the % numbers go over 35%.

Try link again.

tbh, it kind of consolidates for me why I don't want to share in the MN obsession with getting offspring into "top Universities" (ie, Oxbridge, or Russell Group). Because if a handful of schools are dominating entrance that much, if 2 hours daily homework for 11-12 year olds is what it takes, then I don't want it. Life is a journey not just a destination, and that journey isn't one DC can or should take, imho.

Thanks for the link again ragged. The numbers definitely include more universities than Oxford and Cambridge but I can't see exactly what that is.

I completely agree about the MN obsession, it's not worth this level of pain. I don't think it's that which determines whether a child gets to either of those two universities either, it won't make or break it either way (except possibly for turning a child right off the learning process I suppose:)).

I can see from looking at our school that the stats must include RG and 1994 universities as well as Oxford and Cambridge. 35% to Oxford and Cambridge alone is phenomenally high but I understood that level of Oxbridge success to be the preserve of a small number of incredibly selective London schools.

What is the homework policy like at Westminster and SPGS in Y7?

Maybe the Gruaniad totally blew it when they said "selective" = Oxbridge.

I found a comment about a commitment of 3 hours/daily homework for Westminster College (lost link just now in laptop crash), but can't find numbers for any other elite Indies, not Eton, SP, or even the elite schools in county where I live; DD has a youth leader in Guides who attends Norwich HSfG and I think her dad once told me she had about 30-60 mins worth of daily h/w in y8.... She was out of the house 7:30am-4:30pm every day, so not a lot of time for more h/w, really.

Queen Ethelberga (horsey indie boarding school, pony mad DD gets their brochures) they brag about how well their leavers do, publishing exact numbers and exactly which Uni (plenty of ex-polys on the list!), and they only get a handful into Oxbridge (less than 5%, I think).

All I know is that our school doesn't do anything like 2 hours a day in Y7 and still scores very high in the Guardian table (which is consistent with the leavers' figures that I know).

Maybe the three hour figure at Westminster is for the Sixth Form, not the Under School? And tbh Westminster is fairly unique. To make a child labour for two hours a day to be in the same place as peers who did a fraction of that, that makes no sense at all.

Interesting link ragged. Thanks. My DSs comprehensive sends 71% of 6th formers to Uni (22% top). He gets nowhere near 2hrs homework a night!
We are in Essex (nearer to Cambridgeshire, not London).