For those whos dc are not/have not been A/A* students at A level.

[mrsrhodgilbert]

As a new yr13 parent as of today I have a very genuine and perhaps this year more than ever, a very heartfelt and concerned question. With the best will in the world dd is not going to get top grades and therefore is not going to get an offer from any of the top universities in the country. She will probably get B/C grades maybe even D, who knows. I am at a loss about options for next year. She is by no means certain that she wants to go to uni at the moment. School is about to gear up for a big UCAS onslaught, but we certainly have not been asked to prepare personal statements over the summer.

The AS results did not help to focus her mind on a particular subject. We hear such a lot about students who get great grades, but very little about the ones (in fact the majority) who do not achive those A/A*s. Would any of you be prepared to share a little about what your dc's are going to do/have done?

I'm not looking for a debate about the merits of uni for these kids. I know it must be valuable for many of them. I would really like to hear some stories of things that have worked well, or maybe not worked for those of you who have been there or are like me are still wondering.

Welcome to the confusing world of AS and A2 .
I never did get my head round DS's science Alevels .
Uints that could only be resat in the summer ,units that could be sat in the summer but were taken early ( alongside mocks after Christmas ).
Practicals ( are they the ISA I read about ) that were unannounced to me ( no doubt DS knew and forgot ,being what he is ) and failed .
And as to the weighting of various exams ,or trying to work out what a bald figure on the results sheet meant - out of what ?
Teachers saying they were surprised at results and that they would get copy of paper back ,but nothing happening .
Forget it .
Just makes me so mad ,I wanted so much and tried so hard to support my disaorganised and mildly dyslesic child and found that it was like fighting fog .

angelpantser its a straight 50- 50 split between AS and A2. As A2 papers are more difficult than AS the only way to improve grades is to resit and work harder in year 13!

I thought that this year AS grades had to be reported on UCAS forms whether or not they had been cashed in or not?

gingeroots sorry you had a hard time with your DS's school.

strategic resits of AS modules (look carefully at all AS modules and then resit the ones where you think you can squeeze out the most extra marks for the least effort) are so commonplace that people probably don't mention them. It's also worth thinking carefully about when to resit - sometimes Jan works best and other times June is better - things like whether you will end up with too many exams too close together and how much synergy there is with A2 exams being taken at the same time affect this.

As far as declaring grades goes, AS grades only need to be declared if they are cashed in, but all state schools have to cash them in this year or their funding is affected, so it's only a few independent schools that won't declare them. Individual module grades are still optional to declare as far as I know, but the recommendation is to declare all or none - anything noteworthy can be mentioned in the reference/ps if it's not been stated.

hope you won't mind if I comment on experiences of my childrens friends.

Some children are slower to develop physically and emotional maturity often goes with that. This causes all sorts of problems in school as they become demoralised and are turned off by the system. If you can keep them in education to get Bs and Cs at A level you are doing well, although they might well pick up higher grades if doing exams a year later. A child who is told they can't go on to A2 but starts another AS has a chance of taking that to A2 the year after and getting a good grade.

The slower development starts to even out after GSCE and if you can manage to get them to uni they go on developing when the more advanced of their school year may have reached their peak. Look for universities that don't make too much of first year exams.

Geographically isolated universities often have lower grades but universities that ask for high grades in one subject don't necessarily do so in all subjects. Study the UCAS website if you don't have access to the book.

It really annoys me that the system is weighted so heavily to the physically advanced child.

If this is not your child's problem then geographically isolated universities often have lower requirements. Bangor, Plymouth, Stirling are respected universities in this category. The happiest people I know are not always those with degrees but those who have found something they enjoy doing and have a good family life.

webwiz - that's kind . I rather regretted my post - it doesn't contribute much - other than adding to the picture of a bitter and twisted mother .

ellibell what a lovely and helpful post !

I am interested in the question angelpantser asks regarding how unis will view AS grades on an application which are not up to the expected standard.

DD did not get her expected BBBB, so would have to apply with BBCD. One of the b's she wants to drop. With this high risk manouvre we are preparing for her to perhaps apply post results and take a year out. She says she is not ready to be away from home yet, although I realise she may feel very differently in 12 months. I'm not sure she quite believes that, she is very much a home bird. She is feeling more secure now in the knowledge that we are happy for her to take this extra year if she wants to, she would have to do something though. Sitting on the sofa is not an option!

It is reassuring to hear that where things have not gone to plan, either places on courses have been offered anyway, or good alternatives have been found.

I expect she will be put under pressure to apply to uni by the school and may have to go through the process. If she does this and then actually turns down a place next summer what would be the consequences? Can she reapply for a different course the following year? If she applied now it would have to be for something that doesn't involve her favourite subject as her AS grade would not look good. If she is successful in improving things next summer she may be able to go for what she really wants to do and go in 2013.

She doesn't have to apply to university - the school's role is as an education service. However, young people often change their mind so I would imagine the school would bear in mind the students who have not applied and then regret it. She can apply, accept a place and then turn it down. Not sure how unis would view this in the future though - maybe an academic can give a view? I think as long as she can explain why, eg. she improved her grade so went after the course she wanted all along she would be fine.

What a lovely refreshing thread! MN sometimes seems to be in a bit of bubble when it comes to academic acheivement.

Currently I have a 14yr old just starting y10 who with the best will in the world is fairly average academically. If he has a brainstorm and works really hard he might get As for some subjects but mostly not. He's bright enough and a really nice kid with lots going for him - I refuse to write him off because he won't be the top of the tree at GSCE level.

Welcome along Ormirian. Absolutely correct not to write him off. I'm sure we all know a few people with minimum education who live very happy and successful lives and I certainly know a few in the jobs many aspire to who are either completely disenchanted with it all or who have such miserable private lives due to work pressure that the trappings of success are wasted. Be careful what you wish for.

I think our situation may be sorted tonight. Dh has spoken to the biology teacher, I am just waiting for him to call from the other end of the country later on as he is working away.

An academic view on course etiquette would be useful, if we are attracting any here?

MrsRhod and Angelpantser - DD included all her AS results (CCCC) on her UCAS application and got offers from all of her choices including one RG uni so it's maybe worth a shot at applying if they really want to go there - just make sure they have a few alternatives with lower requirements. As it happened she didn't like the RG uni when we visited and loved the one she is going to so made it her first choice. Just as well.

Maybe it would be an idea to go through the application process this year just to get a feel for it - she could always defer or reapply next year. Of DD's friends she is the only one going this year - most have either changed their minds about course choices and are going to apply again next year or are resitting. I almost wish DD was taking a year out but she is determined.

Besiswest, I am pleasantly surprised by your news about a RG university making an offer based on CCCC. I have spent some time just doing very random searches on such establishments and had concluded that you need a whole string pf A grades, maybe the odd B.

I am also really interested to hear about your dd's friends taking some time out to resit or rethink their choices, especially as it will be so costly for them.

We are in Wales so I don't think cost it is as much of an issue for them as the WAG will cover the rise in fees, they will only pay £3290 I think (have not really got my head around what the Welsh assembly are doing with student fees for 2012).
The RG Uni was Cardiff by the way and the offer was ABB I think. I think they look at what the sixth form college put down as predicted grades.

It's still good to see that a uni will offer even against AS grades which are some way off what will be required for A2. It must be down to a good prediction/reference from school/college.

We have decided to let dd do the biology A2 after dh talked to the teacher. She thinks dd has the ability to get the C and if she works hard the B that she was originally predicted. They seem to have a huge amount of free periods next year so she has promised to work really hard and not sit around chatting as I suspect she did last year. She will be allowed to come home too if she has no lessons so she will be under my watchful eye!!!

If she can get BBC or even BBB we will all be thrilled and a tear may be shed.

whilst i fully support this thread I am at Mrsrhodgilbert! "We have decided to let dd do"

your dd is 17 surely it is her decision in what subjects she continues to study?

To be honest I am a little surprised by your comment. If anything I was expecting to be called irresponsible for supporting my dd in dropping a subject she has a good grade in for one which is a bit of a risk.

This whole thread has been about parents who are trying to fully support their children through this minefield of decisions when they do not have as many options as some others. I am sure there are many 17 year olds who are happy and willing to make all these decisions for themselves. There are others who are looking to their parents for guidance and advice. There are obviously other parents on here looking for advice. Together we have found some answers and support.

Ultimately it was her decision, she is the one who is going to have to work her socks off, it would have been irresponsible of us to have let her make that decision without serious thought and professional advice.

There may be others who still wish to comment on here, it would be nice if they were still able to without distraction.

mrsrhodgibert - your explanation makes far better reading than the line I quoted!

Phew, disaster averted and peace is restored. Cricketballs, sorry if my wording was a bit unclear. As we were.

As a sixthform tutor I'd be a bit wary of a student accepting an offer that's ABB if AS grades were CCCC. I've seen a lot of students where the school's predictions have been higher than they realistically should be, mainly because they (kindly) want to encourage the student, and it's really not helpful if it doesn't come with a totally honest and sensible chat about how much work would be necessary for the 'predictions' to be achievable. Realistically, with a LOT of hard work, retakes etc, a lot of (but not all) students can go up a grade in the subjects they take to A2, but it's rare that they go up more than that. If a student did accept an offer that much higher than their AS grades I'd want them to have a VERY easily achievable back up offer.

That is about how I was imagining it to be pippa. Which is why we are prepared to let her get her results and give her time to decide what to do based on firm grades. I really don't want her to go through the madness of clearing and end up taking a totally different path with about 10 seconds to think about it. I ended up doing that and it worked out well, but it was a hugely stressful time which I re-live every August when results are all over the news. From reading threads on here it doesn't seem to have improved and I hope everyone who went through it is happy with the outcome.

If she wants to put in a UCAS application we will fully support her, equally she can take the thinking and growing up time.

Agree with PippaandPolly, on results day the students crying were the ones with fantastic results, mainly A - As but maybe got one A when predicted an A or one B when predicted an A and hadn't got a realistic back up plan in place. Most resat and went up to the uni they wanted this year but not all. When teachers offer to predict As that are unrealistic, although kindly meant, it is not doing the student and their parents any favours.

PippaandPolly - Yes you are right - and she didn't accept it thankfully (ABB offer) - She did get the AS marks up to ABC after resits but overall and realistically she was never going to do it at A2. I suppose I just wanted to show the OP that it is possible to get these offers after such AS results.

At the end of the day you can only advise and guide them though, they must make their own choices.

(have never forgiven my dad for making me take O level Chemistry instead of Art)

dd went to keele uni last year. She had an offer from them of 300 points with an A grade in maths but she achieved BCD (B in maths) but they still accepted her as she had 335 points as she had studied clarinet to Grade 7 which gave her 65 UCAS points.

There are various other ways of increasing the number of UCAS points you have e.g. Extended Project which is equivalent to another AS.

She had offers that varied from AAB to 280 points so it is well worth looking at points offers as well as grade offers.