Should the school-leaving age be lowered to 14?

[Mellowfruitfulness]

This was on BBC Breakfast news.

Is it just another way for the government to save money, or would it really be good for some of our kids to send them out to work aged 14?

Mellow - yes: that's why I gave the date in my first post!

Actually, all these ideas turn up cyclically - the last truly big idea was having the State take over most schools in the early part of the 20th century. Most of the rest since then has been fiddling at the edges (possible exception, abolition of grammar schools entrenching "privilege" of "better" schools to those whose parents could afford/have the luck to be in the right catchment).

cricketballs - yes, I know. But the system currently in place doesn't work for a lot of children. It was all being mooted even 4 or 5 years ago when i was still teahcing secondary but 5 years later and nothing really seems to have moved on at all. And in those 5 years how many children are being failed by a system that doesn't work for them.

Many of these children who will be wanting to leave school at 14 will have very low levels of literacy/numeracy.

Interesting link, Edith. Agree about the cyclical nature of educational ideas! I can remember my mother debating ROSLA (to 16) in the 70s.

Lots of European systems differentiate between 'technical' or 'vocational' or academic routes post 14. The problem is that kids don't always know what they want to do at that age, and it's not easy to change horses mid-gallop - sometimes impossible.

mellowfruitfulness -

But the countries with technical education routes have large manufacturing industries for those who follow the tech route to go into. We don't. Our manufacturing sector is small and shrinking and any skills shortage is for trained engineers (i.e. degree-educated) not technicians.

We are heading towards a two-tier job market - high-skilled, high pay services jobs at the top, low-pay, low-skill services jobs at the bottom and fuck all in between.

The french had a good system in place, I don't know if they still do.

From age 14, instead of college day release, they did work day release. As long as the student managed to get a (probably low paid) placement in a workplace, he/she could hop onto a vocational course covering thatarea but also covering his/her normal academic subjects.

Do the people who follow the technical route not go on to uni, then?

mellow - no, vocational training is generally an apprenticeship with day release to a vocational school.

mellow they can do, it is just up to them on how far they take it.

Although it is worth noting that currently students can gain a place at uni through level 3 vocational qualification (for example BTEC National Diploma) but many universities are changing their entry requirements from 2012 and will demand an A level in a different subject in addition to the BTEC

Should make it clear that I was talking about the German model.

My dad is old enough to have been able to leave school at 14. He did, and via a very " portfolio " career , evening classes etc ended up in teaching. He maintains that the option to leave school and try out employment should be there for those who want and have a job they can go into. Not leave at 14 and doss on the dole though.

He also feels that there should be " education credits" so that if you leave at 14, do a couple of years in the only sort if job you are qualified for ie not much, and you then see what you need to get in terms to qualifications - then you could " cash them in" and acess the remainder od your educational entitlement.

Theas 18 I have often thought credits sounded a good idea, too. Your dad's spot on!

What worries me though is that the great opportunities my generation (and your dad's?) had - ie that you could leave school early and pick up other qualifications later in life - won't be so available for the younger generation.

I had kids very young, so I had a break from education and then went to uni when my younger child was 2. I would not be able to do that nowadays, because the only reason I could afford to go was because I got a grant. If I had not gone to uni, I have no idea how I would have supported my children as a single parent all these years. Presumably I would have got a job of some sort, but I doubt that I would have been able to make ends meet.

It breaks my heart when I think how short sighted the government's policies are wrt tuition fees and loans. My family and I would have cost the state thousands of pounds if I had been on benefits.

Lots of people make unwise decisions when they are young. It makes so much sense for them to have another shot at education once they have grown up a bit!