How can I persuade ds (12) that the little things matter?

[schroeder]

ds is ridiculously lazy in his school work, he can't be bothered to underline his titles, use capital letters or to rough things out first. As a result his work looks sloppy and messy, no matter that the content is good, he is letting himself down.

He thinks I'm over fussy and it doesn't matter, I think he's losing marks that he could easily get just by checking his work and picking up a ruler etc.

He has been moved into lower sets at school in about 5 subjects already, I do not go on about his school work all the time, I don't want to end up in the position where I am standing over him every night, but maybe I need to get more involved?

What do you think?

It does not help that he is quite difficult to talk to right now having metamorphosed into a teenager already, he is grumpy, sensitive and selfish.

I know this sound very negative, but really he is a lovely bright boy whom I adore and it breaks my heart that he is struggling, because I know how well he can do. His creative writing especially is fantastic, I've been looking in his english book and it's beautiful, he also draws very well. This seems to make it worse for me-that his teachers might not see his potential hidden behind the slapdash presentation.

My son is now 17 and we've had all this. He will do the minimum amount of work possible to get by! Presentation always a problem etc. However he has just finished sitting his Highers (we're in Scotland) and I was pleasantly surprised by the effort and amount of work he did. You could have knocked me over with a feather when he asked me to help him out with maths and English (boy is it a long time since I did Higher Maths!) - he's always told us he doesn't want any help! He has put more effort in because he can see there is an end to school in sight and he knows he needs those qualifications to get into uni. I think he'll always do the minimum to get by and we've just learned to live with this.

I guess I'm trying to say that it's just something you may need to ride out if you want to keep your sanity. It may be worth approaching the school with your concerns and letting them know the situation and saying that you are supportive and willing to help, but he has made it clear that he doesn't want that help. Then if he doesn't complete work and ends up with a punishment it will be down to him and the school will be aware of your concerns...

Our youngest has dyslexia and asperger's (can't write - uses laptop or a scribe) and struggles along without complaint - always does his absolute best and gets upset if he runs out of time to finish something! The contrast is unbelievable - but at least I know it's not our parenting style that has caused this - just different personalities and outlooks on life!!

"Apparently, the changes in the brain happening at this time later allow the young person think differently than they did as a child; more independantly, like an adult."

Thanks for the clarification, kez. I have heard about teenage brains changing and wondered if your understanding was the same as mine. The way I heard it was that teenagers' brains go through a growth spurt, similar in scale to the transition from baby to toddler. The brain literally changes, expands and makes new neural connections. Like muscles, the more exercise the connections get the better they are. Therefore a parent shouldn't passively sit back while the young person learns how to think differently but should help with the exercise. The main skill that they have to learn is that actions have consequences. Think about teenagers (especially boys): aren't they the most hare-brained, irresponsible, clueless, risk-taking things going. It's because they haven't yet made the neutral connections that associate cause & effect. Parents shouldn't sit back and let them work it out the hard way (through demotion down a set, detention, etc) but should help them.
Did you passively 'allow' your youngster to work out riding a bike by themselves, or did you help? It's the same concept.

I never said the going down a set shouldn't be followed up - I expressly said it should in my first sentence. This is something, I am sure, completely independent of the presentation issue.

It was the dealing with lack of presentation and the fact that 'the message isn't getting through'. Of course, as a parent, you help and mention it. You hope, if it matters, school is doing the same thing. However, during this period, if the message isn't getting through then it's not necessarily due to awkwardness (even though it seems like it is). So, if it were me, and I had mentioned it but got nowhere, no, I wouldn't bang my head against a brick wall going on about it (and getting nowhere) because, I suspect there will be far more important issues just around the corner that really will need facing without backing down.

Sorry, kez, didn't mean to sound as if I was getting at you

The trick is not to nag but to help them through the thought-process. You prompt them along the lines of "if you do/don't do this, what do you expect will happen next?" You help them to pose the questions so that they can think about the consequences.

I went and I helped him; I sat with him and we talked through the questions together, by the end we were laughing-70 fraction questions to do in one night! a big job.

I know you might think I'm silly to help him so much, but ds lacks confidence and this is not the first time he has pushed me away when he needs me most.
I am absolutely of the opinion that children need to learn the consequences of their actions, but I think the time has come for me to help a bit because he is struggling.
I do this automatically with dd (9) because she asks me and wants to know my opinion-such a different child .

His form teacher said the theme from dd's subject teachers was poor presentation and only writing the bare minimum. When I asked what I could do to help he suggested I check his homework and encourage him to be neater and expand his answers a bit. This I intend to do.

I think a trip to WHSmith for some new pens and tippex

With respect, the advice given was based on a lad who was described as:

grumpy, sensitive and selfish.

Most, if not all advice, said work with him but don't beat yourself up if it doesn't work because of this current temperament. If the temperament is not like that - as described in your latest post - then, of course, help - as you have done. I'm sure we all would.