Schools hot on 'medicine' as a career choice

[nokissymum]

my friends ds is 10yrs and been saying for about 3 years now he wants to be a doctor when he is old enough. Friend and i were wondering wether there are any particular schools known of whose graduants seem to have a strong swaying towards medicine.

I may be wrong in this assumption but seem to feel certain schools just seem to end up with most their students going in a particular direction, be it languages, enineering etc. Thank you.

I have had a 15 year old tell me he wanted to be "a doctor or a lawyer". I just smiled to myself.

mumblechum1 - the first three years (preclinical) of a medicine course started as an undergraduate are lecture based, with some link in with the teaching hospitals and local GPs. It's not until you've graduated and start the second three years of clinical training that you are based in a hospital, and I think this is true also outside Oxbridge. The courses that are graduate entry are four years long and extremely competitive to get onto. The best medics aren't necessarily the best students academically. People skills are extremely important.

Most state secondary and independent schools with sixth forms do publish a list of final destinations for their school leavers including degree subjects and university attended. However if the school is close to a major teaching hospital in a university town or city then there will be a higher percentage of parents with medical backgrounds so the figures may not be completely reliable.

That's very sensible advice, I think, Crazymum, but my experience is that smart, hard-working students do get into medicine from a wider range than in the past, as long as they have very good science teachers. So, look at the science grades obtained at schools you are considering. Schools which offer separate sciences (rather than combined) at GCSE tend to have better A-level results. Then read all you can about the road into medicine to find out what else universities are looking for in future doctors: it does vary a bit.

And, if your DC wants to aim really high, take Yellowstone's comment that Oxbridge does not offer "the best courses" when it comes to medicine with a pinch of salt. Oxford medicine has just come tops in the subject table of The Times Higher Education?s World University Rankings 2011-12.

And just because they say medicine now don't think that's them mapped out for life. The local boys independent here is tearing its hair out because so many boys (or their parents....) want to do medicine, despite the fact that a number won't get in either because their grades just won't be high enough or their personality is entirely unsuited to a career working with people. These boys submit UCAS applications and end up with no offers when they would probably have made very good physicists or engineers but hadn't considered it because the sacrificed themselves at the high alter of 'medicine is everything'. Smart and good at science does not necessarily = medicine. After all it isn't actually doctors who cure people, it is the chemists who design the drugs on a molecular level, the physicists who optimise the equipment used in surgery and radiotherapy etc......

DS yr 11 is looking at medicine as a career but I think he is looking at some sort of engineering as a back up. We did actually joke he could end up designing prothesis with that mix of skills.

We had an interview with Connexions last week and she was very informative about the extras needed for medicine, that sort of prove you know what you are getting into ie volunteering in a hospital or care home,
What are your people skills like?
It was also interesting the different UCAS points required for the different medical schools. I think the highest UCAS points required were for Dublin or Birmingham.

He for some reason he is interested in Edinburgh at the moment and the prospectus arrived this morning.

I'd second Epsom (in terms of historic link with medcine)

A Unique History
In the 1840s, doctors were in the front line of change. The population of the United Kingdom had almost doubled between 1801 and 1841, but towns had grown so fast that demand for medicine often outstripped supply. There was a genuine need to provide preliminary education for youth destined for the medical or other professions - often an impossibility at ordinary schools without incurring an amount of expense beyond the means of many parents.

Founded in 1853 with Royal patronage granted by Her Majesty Queen Victoria in 1855, the founder of Epsom College, Dr. John Propert, raised funds to build a foundation to help orphans and widows of members of the medical profession. The Royal Medical Benevolent College opened its doors in 1855, at first providing for fewer than 100 boys.

The ceremony of opening took place on Monday 25th June at 3.30pm with an audience of several thousand. His Royal Highness Prince Albert presided over the duties of the day.

The huge extension of the school in 1862 quickly allowed numbers to rise so that, by 1864, there were 190 resident pupils and ten day scholars. 1882 to 1914 saw a significant period of reconstruction, development and change, both in the buildings and the curriculum on offer.

The First World War provided a caesura in the life of Epsom College, as in the life of Britain as a whole. The disruption of the 'Edwardian Age' was made more complete by the arrival of a new headmaster, for the first time in 25 years, which would have caused change even without the war.

The period 1923-1939 saw prosperity amid adversity. Further developments and new buildings were opened.

The early days of the Second World War were an epic struggle for Henry Franklin, the new Headmaster, just as they were for the country as a whole. Mr. Franklin, a classicist and cricket and rugby blue, came from Rugby School, straight into the worst situation possible. Rationing was already so severe that masters were anxious to dig up the grounds to plant vegetables and uniforms of acceptable standards had suddenly become unavailable. As the year wore on food supply became so erratic that the Bursar could not plan meals on the assumption that food would arrive or be cooked.

The period 1962 to 2000 saw significant management of change. Buildings were upgraded, Houses were changed and extended. Girls were admitted to the College and the public areas were sensitively redesigned.

In recent years, the College has continued to develop as a fully co-educational school with state of the art facilities and a broad and challenging curriculum. The school year 2010-11 will see the largest ever number of students at the College and the groundbreaking of our new sister school in Malaysia.

To order the most recent History of Epsom College: Benevolence and Excellence, written by historian Alan Scadding, please call the College Store on: 01372 821122.

mumblechum1

Having worked with medics from Oxford I'd agree with you. One problem is the actual students - they do not live in the real world and can't cope with the idea that someone has to bring their child wiht them because they don't have a nanny, or with people who don't speak English.

My DD1 is currently studying medicine at Southampton and loves the course. She attended a bog standard comprehensive, which was actually an advantage since her exceptional GCSE/AS and eventually A2 were 'harder' earned, in the words of the interviewer than pupils from private/selective schools. But during her interview all they asked her about was her work with a tall ships charity that offers experiences to handicapped people and the fact she chose Graphics as her 4th AS. She ended up with an offer of BBB, unusually low. Try to ensure your DC is a well rounded person and they will have a better chance. Of course her father was a GP so in all fairness that probably helped.

Agree with unimother, most important thing is that science teaching at the school is good, that it offers separate sciences at gcse and ideally lots of students doing a-level sciences, ask to see breakdown and numbers for science results. Our school was v poor for sciences, teaching was poor basically and no separate sciences offered at gcse. a few people managed to get into it through their own hard work outside school and tuition.

I believe Cambridge now has some clinical work in the first couple years, though it's mainly preclinical as discussed above. It still does the 'intercalated year' so students do Natural Sciences (or rarely another subject) and get a BA halfway through. So could be good for a scientist who is interested in medicine but might be considering a research rather than medical career, or want that as a backup option.

As far as schools are concerned, the vital thing is A-level Chemistry. Biology is obviously useful too. So I'd go for a school that offers three separate sciences for GCSE rather than only double-cert combined science - whatever they say about being able to do A-level from 2GCSE science, it's a heck of a lot harder and anyone considering medicine will probably want to study as much science as possible.

"Biology is obviously useful too."

A lot of the courses require Biology at AS level.
DS is hoping to take Maths Physics and Chemistry but was then maybe doing a something like Phylosophy and Ethics until we had the connexions interview and she showed us the requirements for the various universities.

edinburgh require
Chemistry at A level
plus Biology, Maths or Physics
Also Biology at AS level

I really would think twice, and then twice more, about steering a 10 year old down a particular course.

Obviously s/he should go to a school where they take sciences seriously: a good school, in other words. I'm delighted that the local comp where DD1 is likely to go to specialises in sciences (not least because she is a very wordy/arty child and therefore needs an emphasis on that element of the curriculum). But surely the most important thing, at this point, to focus is a good broad-based education incorporating sciences, humanities (including at least one language) and some arty-farty stuff*?

*disclaimer: I personally am v partial to arty-farty stuff.

It's just stupid to talk about which ones are 'good' or not (eg Oxbridge is crap). As alice15 said, it's about different teaching styles and methods so the key is to work out what you want, what you like, do some research and apply accordingly.

mummytime there is nothing wrong with a child of an immigrant wanting to be a doctor or a lawyer. Teachers who 'smile at myself' if a 14 year old says that to them, and can only put this down to pushy parents are very sad teachers. Medicine and the law both have competitive entries and need students with good memory and good communication skills.
A child who wants to do either should not be simply smiled at and put down, and worse, made to feel that the only reason they have aspiration is due to pushy unrealistic immigrant parents.
No, mummytime you do these children an injustice. If you are a teacher you should rather be thinking how you are going to support and encourage each and everyone of those children in their aspirations.

I see nothing wrong with encouraging any child who wants to do medicine - they will need to be supported through the sciences, the work experience, the applications process, they will need to be self motivated and for that motivation to be nurtured, not destroyed by teachers. There are many medical schools in the country. Entry requirements are not all the same. No teacher can or should be deciding for 10 or 14 year olds who is or isn't suitable to be a doctor. After gcse's if results are not good enough, the children and parents themselves will realise. If results are good enough, then the children should be encouraged further.

It is racist to assume that children of immigrant families only want to be doctors because they have had their lives mapped out for them by pushy parents. This is an outrageous thought which tries to give less ambitious children/families the higher moral ground.
I have come across parents who want their children to be doctors who have absolutely no idea what that entails. I don't think that matters a jot, except to be positive because the parents will be supporting the child through what is necessary.
Years ago it used to be thought an advantage to have someone in medicine in the family because they would be aware of the commitment needed.
This is no longer so as medicine is now more family friendly. But it is important for the student and family to talk to as many doctors/medical students as possible to get a realistic picture. The need for honesty and integrity, and brain also goes without saying.
Also, all should be aware that a UK medical degree is no longer a meal ticket for life. Competition for jobs increases after qualification and are likely to be far from home. Exams continue for another 10 years. The factual knowledge and clear thinking required as well as the ability to make sound decisions and communicate well and pleasantly under stress, the need to be able to ensure details are accurate mean that not all are intellectually or emotionally capable.

You?d know, each time I look at the title of this thread it brings a scary smile to my face.

No, I don?t mean any disrespect to the OP or indeed anyone who had responded to the thread ? far from it!

I smile because out of a dozen or so boys in my DS?s peer group in school, literally half of them have at least one parent and in a couple of cases, both parents, who are actually medical doctors ranging in specialty from a pediatrician to a top surgeon.

I smile or should I say, laugh (?) at myself, because none of these medics? DC went on to pursue medicine at university. For that matter, none of DS?s peer group proceeded to do medicine.

Now, seriously, do they know something that I don?t?

More worryingly, do DS?s peers know something that he doesn?t?

I think you need to have a child with a strong academic aptitude and work ethic first of all. Certainly at GCSE most hopefuls are straight A/A* material.

Both my kids who are still at school (esp DS) have almost had to fight against the trend in order not to do medicine at a very academic school with a very ethnically mixed population. It is the norm to want to be a doctor lawyer or dentist (and for the girls to go to the local uni and plan to set up in practice with their female friends- it made me sad to see this in DD1s leavers year book TBH).

Not sure I'd recommend it now anyway as a profession TBH....

I can see no reason not to encourage it. Its academically demanding across the board, plus needs social skills and extra curricular too. Even if they never end up being a medic (the realisation will probably happen slowly as they get older) they have focussed on a very well rounded education! My son wants to be a Games Designer (I think that is equivilent of medicine as a dream for the slightly less able boy) and I've told him thats great head for the sciences, especially Physics, and Maths. Whether he gets there or not, the academic choices needed are rigourous and very useful indeed.

peteneras - I am a hospital consultant and have two children 10 and 3.
Am still doing exams and work long hours.
If my DCs want to do medicine - I will make sure that they are 100% committed and will be able to hack it for the next 15 years of exams/assessments and working long hours and moving from one part of the country to another and never settle down before you are well into late 30s or 40s.
If you need just money -there are other career you can choose where you can earn reasonable amount of money and earn it quickly and not wait for years.
May be the children see what their parents have to do - My sister/brother refused to do medicine after seeing my work(they are 10 years younger than me)- For example today is my day off and my research VIVA tomorrow but went to work to make sure everything was OK. So maybe the children see the lifestyle.
Am meant to be working and not MNing

Good luck for your viva

Neither of my children want to be doctors

The children whose fathers are doctors seem to be OK following in footsteps though

Theas18 why did it make you sad that a group of friends wanted to set up in practice together? This is not unheard of. Would you rather the partners in a practice clashed?

i am always surprised a how many parents want their children to work in the profession which has the highest rate of suicide, divorce and alcoholism, namely medicine.