Unreasonable Teacher.....

[Megmog2000]

Ive had a voicemail message from school today regarding DS2 who is 14 and in Year 9 regarding an incident during an english lesson. He is by no means an angel, but not a total waste of space. He is an intelligent lad when he puts his mind to it, but one subject (english) is his definate week area. He doesnt appear to enjoy the subject, but tries his best most of the time.

He has had the same teacher for the last couple of years, said teacher has never been particlarly complimentary about DS at parents evenings, to which I put down to DS not putting the effort in because he didnt enjoy it.

More recently, there have been several confrontations with this teacher, mainly as DS isnt doing his homework, classwork, messing about, which I suspect is because he has an issue with the teacher. Whilst I do not condone this behaviour and have spoken at length with DS about this, I can understand it to a certain extent.

Ive had many calls from his Year head, all relating to very minor and petty incidents during english lessons, something I would expect any decent teacher to handle as part of normal day to day teaching, I had a letter home about his "immature behaviour" (which incidentally was throwing a rubber at another child).

I had a voicemail message late this afternoon and need to call school tomorrow to find out a bit more, but I challenged DS about what happened in english today and he told me that his teacher said to him, in front of the whole class that "he was a failure, would end up in the bottom set with the SEN kids, would fail his exams and never make anything of himself". DS response was to mutter under his breath that the teacher was a bitch. He has said that the teacher didnt hear him but another child did and blabbed so DS finds himself in hot water.

Now, I only have one version of events, but on the surface of things, I am fuming that a teacher can even contemplate saying these things and humilate him infront of the entire class. This teacher appears to have had it in for DS for a long time and Im tired of it now. She was the only person at parents evening to only have negative comments without any sort of praise at all - not exactly condusive for a positive relationship.

So, the question I have - do I go into school, guns blazing and making a complaint about this teacher, or do I just accept that DS was in the wrong and let him accept the punishment (he was isolated from lessons since period 1 this morning).

My gut feeling is to make my feelings well and truely known, but I suspect the school will defent their staff. DS is due to move to the upper school in september so only has this next half term to go (he is away in paris on a school trip for one week, 3 days induction at the upper school and 2 days on other trips so not even a full half term!). I dont want to necessarily rock the boat either, my DD is in her first year there and has another 3 years to go!!

Thanks for reading - sorry for the waffle!!

[Irksome]

the very fact that you've called the thread 'unreasonable teacher' not 'concerned about ds's behaviour' speaks volumes....

[sunshinenanny]

Has everybody forgotten that this 'professional' Teacher made innapropriate remarks concerning SEN children and told this child that "he would not amount to anything" ever heard the phrase self fulfilling prophesy?

In life; If we have problems with everybody we meet it may very well be that we are entirely to blame! But if we clash with only one person and get on well will everyone else then maybe that person is at fault.

It speaks volumes to me that this boy doesn't seem to be a problem in anyone else's class.

I do understand that some children are disruptive and you know all the facts about your individual schools; But we don't know enough about this boy to demonise him in the way some of the poster's on this thread are doing.

Not all teachers are perfect or indeed, treat all their pupils fairly.

[quirrelquarrel]

The teacher didn't make nasty remarks about SEN children- they said that the OP's son would end up in the bottom set with the SEN kids and that he would end up being no good and achieving nothing.

Ever heard the expression "work hard or prepared to be knocked down and then have to work twice as hard to get where you want to be"? Well, obviously not, otherwise we wouldn't get this kind of situation :)

The OP's son obviously does not have an ego that bruises like a peach, otherwise he'd be a model of good behaviour (i.e. the phone calls home etc haven't had much of an effect on him). He will probably bounce back from this because everyone will have rallied round him and told him how completely unreasonable the teacher was. Sorry to the OP- I've never met your son- but I can imagine what he's like. Mostly good, but a real pain and at crossroads= Generation Z.

[quirrelquarrel]

And I would say that giving tit for tat is pretty professional behaviour- it happens amongst professionals and no one bats an eye, at least

If you come in expecting to teach a class (and put your years of hard work/degree to good use) and instead you do have to control fourteen year olds like they've never been taught how to sit down, then I think doling out a few home truths is acceptable enough.

[t0lk13n]

I teach so many children like the OPs son. Luckily 99% of the parents support us. Am glad he isnt in my school!

[t0lk13n]

It speaks volumes to me that this boy doesn't seem to be a problem in anyone else's class.

Arrgghh I really hate this phrase!!!

[sunshinenanny]

The remarks about the SEN children were unprofessional and innapropriate and show a complete lack of understanding.

It suggests that these children are worthless. The school obviously agreed as he was pulled up on these comments.

[sunshinenanny]

I do back most teachers but Know that they are not always right!

Tit For tat is unprofessional. espesially when an adult is directing it at a child. Just because something happens and no one bats an eye doesn't make it professional behaviour.

[cinpin]

If the boy was a trouble maker as a lot of you are suggesting why are there not a lot of complaints from other teachers? The OP is saying her son is ok and she dealt with her son, and I am glad the school supported her and said the teacher was wrong to say it. This is the type of teacher that does not deserve respect.

[cinpin]

I would like to point out that a lot of SEN children do well in life.

[lecce]

This is the type of teacher that does not deserve respect. What a great attitude How can you possibly decide she is not worthy of respect based on a third-hand account of one ill-judged comment she made that you have read on the internet? There is no doubt her remark was ill-considered but, if the OP's son is bright and under-acheiving she was clearly just trying to make him see the longterm consequences of his behaviour. She should never have mentioned SEN children, not least because it has enabled that aspect of what she said to be jumped upon and taken the emphasis of the OP's son's behaviour that led her to comment in the first place. I doubt the OP's son was enraged on behalf of SEN kids. I'm sure she didn't mean that all SEN kids end up on the scrap-heap but was maybe trying to apeal to the boy's pride. She shouldn't have mentioned SEN though. If she does have to apologise to the boy I hope he won't see it as some sort of victory over her, not least for the sake of the other children in the class who are having their education disrupted by him.

There are all sorts of reasons he may not have problems in other subjects. Maybe he struggles with English/hates reading and writing (as do a lot of boys), maybe she is less-experienced than some of her coleagues, maybe she has higher expectations, maybe his other teachers are more 'old-school' and he is scared of them, maybe it is to do with social dynamic of the class, maybe she has 'lucked out' and has them after PE, last thing in the day etc etc, maybe other teachers are less scrupulous about reporting his behaviour to their seniors...

Whatever the reason no one is doing him any favours by excusing his behaviuour and blaming the teacher.

As for blaming 'uninspirational' teachers...what a joke. Not every lesson can be 'all-singing all-dancing', especally at busy times of year. However much you include dynamic, fun activities there will come a time when pupils need to write their own, listen a bit etc. Are people really telling their dc it's ok to mess about and be rude to the teachers if they didn't enjoy the lesson? Sadly, having a disruptive child in the class can actually make teachers more conservative and less willing to take risks, so it could well be that 'bored' child who is causing the teacher to do more 'traditional' lessons.

Shocked by some of the attitudes on here...

[quirrelquarrel]

^ claps breathlessly

Btw- I know it's unprofessional, it was a tongue in cheek remark. My point was that making school some kind of bubble, completely secluded and out of the way of this mythical Real World isn't doing anyone any favours. Sometimes "professionalism" on the part of teachers should be sacrificed for some good old fashioned education- what the kids are actually there for. Obviously a lot of pupils are making it practically impossible for both to coexist, which is v. sad.

[quirrelquarrel]

Why is that in bold? haha
I am not that overzealous :o

[cinpin]

Why are you judging this boy on what you have read on the internet?

Thats what you have just said to me the teacher admitted that she said this.

In the case of my son they listened and got a third party in. He has now swopped classes and doing well.

[lecce]

Yes I know to a certain extent I am doing the same that I accused you of doing, it's just that, as a teacher, I can imagine the situation all too well. Of course, I may be wrong but I find it very hard to believe that HOY would be phoning home, more than once, for minor issues. It just doesn't happen, there is no time to be phoning parents for every little issue. OP has also been told he does neither classwork or homework - what has that got to do with a 'personality clash' - he either does it or he doesn't, it's not about perception.

Fwiw, a colleague of mine has recently been accused of exactly that - 'having it in' for a child. It was decided that she should move groups as a gesture of goodwill and because it was the easiest solution. It is not an admission of guilt on the part of my colleague, who was very hurt by the accusation and is adamant - and I believe him - that he had certainly not 'picked on' this child. After a good start, she is now causing problems in her new group...

I'm not saying that I do not believe you about your dc and I am glad the school investigated and resloved the situation to your satisfaction. It was probably best all round that a move be made. However, I am sure it is very rare indeed for a teacher to victimise a child, it would be draining, time-consuming and not to their benefit at all.

I have also been in many situations where one teacher has complained about a child and HOY has, as a result, asked other teachers' opinions and more complaints have been forthcoming. Some teachers are more likely to follow procedures than others.

[snailoon]

If a child is always well behaved, never gets negative comments at parent's evenings, and has behaviour problems in ONE class, I would assume the problem is the teacher's, unless this teacher never has trouble with any other students, never needs to give detentions.

[cinpin]

Exactly snailmoon there are good and bad teachers. My point was teachers are not always right. They are also the adults, some teachers and people have a natural way with children and can bring out the best in them, others do not. I feel sorry for the OP she did not come on saying her son was an angel and seemed open to peoples comments.

Its very easy for people to say their children would not dare to get in trouble in school
, I have seen families where one child has gone a bit wild but the sibblings work hard at school etc. You cannot always blame the parents wait untill your children have got through the teens before you start congratulating yourselves on how well behaved they are.

[Irksome]

Even if he has the world's biggest personality clash with this teacher, he is still not allowed to throw rubbers around and disrupt the class, which he is clearly doing on a very regular basis.

My daughter, who generally gets good reports regarding behaviour, manners, ATL etc, had a teacher she disliked last year and I think the feeling was pretty mutual, but it would have been no excuse whatsoever for arsing about in class, and although having met the teacher I didn't warm to her much either. However if I had had even one phone call home to say dd had been disruptive or rude, I would have been very clear about the fact it was still her fault, and her responsibility to behave in class. The fact that she was good in other subjects would not have been any excuse for dicking about in this one!

What if he's at work and he likes all his immediate superiors except for one? Are you going to get him moved?

[Irksome]

Oh dear, sentence structure went wrong there as answered the phone whilst typing...
Should be:
full stop after 'class'.
'Although having met [...], if I had had even one phone call....'

sorry!

[lecce]

To be really picky, the OP hasn't said her son has no problems with other teachers, she says "She was the only person at parents evening to only have negative comments without any sort of praise at all - " This suggests that other teachers may have made criticisms but balanced them with praise. This is undoubtedly good practice and I agree with the OP that the teacher should have found something good to say about him, if only to keep Mum onside and also because I am sure he is not all bad .

I am not saying he is some kind of devil-child but, for his own benefit above anyone else's he needs to sort himself out in English and undermining the teacher is not the way to go about this.

[EvilTwins]

"there are good and bad teachers" - yes, and there are good and bad children too. OH NO - huge error - NO ONE is allowed to say that a child IS bad, only that their behaviour is inappropriate, and yet it's absolutely fine to insist that there are BAD TEACHERS despite the fact that, yes, you are commenting on someone you don't know, based on a third party re-telling of one side of a story.

I wonder if those who think that this MUST be the fault of the teacher simply because the child in question doesn't (allegedly) get into trouble elsewhere think that works the opposite way too. If a child is badly behaved in all their lessons except one, does it mean that the one teacher is amazing, and that all the others are useless? Because it can't work both ways.

What a surprise - another MN thread has turned into an opportunity to bash teachers.

I can't get over some of the attitudes on this thread. It's no wonder so many children underachieve at school when their parents join them in this ridiculous game of only respecting teachers who have proved to a bunch of children that they are worthy of it, because of their ability to control. Loopy.

[cinpin]

This is a discussion site we are not supposed to all agree. Are you saying every teacher you have met has been good? Most people on this site have said it is the boys fault no one said that they were not allowed to say that.

I do not know anybody that uses this discussion site so everyone is commenting on people that they do not know.

Saying there was bad teachers was perhaps not PC.

If the child had bad reports apart from one yes I would think the child was in the wrong.

[EvilTwins]

"Are you saying every teacher you have met has been good?"

I have never met a teacher who is unable to their job. I have met teachers who have problems with particular classes, problems with specific children, problems with colleagues and so on, but to say that a teacher is just bad is, IMO, a dreadfully unfair and ignorant thing to say. I have been teaching for 14 years, and have had more than the average visits by OFSTED, as the school I'm teaching in at the moment is in special measures. I have been seen, I think, 7 times this academic year. Of those 7, 3 were judged to be outstanding, 3 were judged as good, and one was deemed inadequate. What does that say about me? Probably that I'm normal. The inadequate was because the inspector didn't see enough evidence of progression during the 20 minutes she was in the room. Does that make me a "bad" teacher? No, of course not. Neither would one outstanding lesson observation make me an "outstanding" teacher.

Too many parents think it's OK to say that teachers are just "bad". Straightforward, can't do their job. If you went to the supermarket, and the person on the til bleeped through your bread 4 times and didn't notice, would you say that that person was a "bad checkout assistant" and insist that they didn't deserve their job or any respect? Would you allow your 14 year old to hurl insults at her (and maybe throw a rubber at her)? I doubt it. Yet it's OK for a rational (I'm guessing) adult to say that a teacher is out-and-out "bad" because of something a child has told you?

If I took MN to heart, I would have quit my job ages ago. These sorts of threads tend to reach the point where a non-teaching MNer will tell a teaching MNer "I'm glad you don't teach my DCs - you're obvoiusly crap at your job", which is ridiculous. Given how PC MN is at times - a poster will get jumped on for suggesting that a child is "bad" or that someone is a "bad parent", yet "bad teacher" is fine - common in fact.

[sunshinenanny]

Nobody is saying that all teachers are bad but in every profession there are members that are not suited to the job. I am sure, Evil Twins that you are every bit as good as you think you are but you are not the teacher in question and many of the poster's on this thread are very sopportive of teachers, so there is no need to take it personally; unless you are feeling insecure about your own abilities.

Nannies certainly get a lot of bad press but I don't take it personaly because my references, qualifications and the many children who still keep in touch (a couple of them now at University and beyond) tell me I am not one of the bad ones.

Ofsted inspections are often contradictory.