Unreasonable Teacher.....

[Megmog2000]

Ive had a voicemail message from school today regarding DS2 who is 14 and in Year 9 regarding an incident during an english lesson. He is by no means an angel, but not a total waste of space. He is an intelligent lad when he puts his mind to it, but one subject (english) is his definate week area. He doesnt appear to enjoy the subject, but tries his best most of the time.

He has had the same teacher for the last couple of years, said teacher has never been particlarly complimentary about DS at parents evenings, to which I put down to DS not putting the effort in because he didnt enjoy it.

More recently, there have been several confrontations with this teacher, mainly as DS isnt doing his homework, classwork, messing about, which I suspect is because he has an issue with the teacher. Whilst I do not condone this behaviour and have spoken at length with DS about this, I can understand it to a certain extent.

Ive had many calls from his Year head, all relating to very minor and petty incidents during english lessons, something I would expect any decent teacher to handle as part of normal day to day teaching, I had a letter home about his "immature behaviour" (which incidentally was throwing a rubber at another child).

I had a voicemail message late this afternoon and need to call school tomorrow to find out a bit more, but I challenged DS about what happened in english today and he told me that his teacher said to him, in front of the whole class that "he was a failure, would end up in the bottom set with the SEN kids, would fail his exams and never make anything of himself". DS response was to mutter under his breath that the teacher was a bitch. He has said that the teacher didnt hear him but another child did and blabbed so DS finds himself in hot water.

Now, I only have one version of events, but on the surface of things, I am fuming that a teacher can even contemplate saying these things and humilate him infront of the entire class. This teacher appears to have had it in for DS for a long time and Im tired of it now. She was the only person at parents evening to only have negative comments without any sort of praise at all - not exactly condusive for a positive relationship.

So, the question I have - do I go into school, guns blazing and making a complaint about this teacher, or do I just accept that DS was in the wrong and let him accept the punishment (he was isolated from lessons since period 1 this morning).

My gut feeling is to make my feelings well and truely known, but I suspect the school will defent their staff. DS is due to move to the upper school in september so only has this next half term to go (he is away in paris on a school trip for one week, 3 days induction at the upper school and 2 days on other trips so not even a full half term!). I dont want to necessarily rock the boat either, my DD is in her first year there and has another 3 years to go!!

Thanks for reading - sorry for the waffle!!

[Megmog2000]

Just as an aside, whilst I acknowledge that my DS is a pain in the bum SOMETIMES, this isnt a regular, consistent pattern of behaviour. He can be a lazy so and so and needs a kick up the backside to complete work, but isnt that part and parcel of being a teenager??? OK, he has perhaps been inconsiderate of his actions at times, but I do not believe that any behavour should have warrented such a statement from his teacher. He isnt this dispruptive, unruly child that he is being made to be (although everyone is entitled to their opinion).

After speaking with DS year head, he quoted the statement that the teacher made to him to me before I told him what DS had said to me. It is evident that the statement was made and will be addressed by the school. I didnt go into school guns blazing and I didnt make a fuss. I have support the schools repsonse to this and DS has been punished for his behaviour (which was indirect but unacceptable all the same) for which he was isolated for 3 days and asked (by me) to write a letter of apology. He has also had his xbox confiscated for the half term holiday (didnt go down well - but needed to make the point!)

Im hoping that as this all came to a head just before half term then the break will be enough for everyone to start afresh. I have had many discussions with DS over the half term about standards and what is expected of him. There will be repercussions if he does not conform to what is expected of him.

[cinpin]

oncamai does the school not have an antibullying policy? Your daughter sounds lovely but bullying still goes on in private schools.

Megmog your son sounds like a normal teenager hope he gets on better tomorrow.

[onceamai]

cinpin, I don't think I mentioned bullying, I mentioned persistent low level disruptiveness and generally poor behaviour that prevents learning for the majority. I have an older child already in the independent sector and believe me the disruption of learning just doesn't persist. The miscreants are invited to leave and if they weren't invited to leave the parents of the majority would vote with their feet and the school would lose 12k per annum per child.

[cinpin]

No you did not mention bullying but that is what I would call it. My friends DD went to a private school and her life was made a misery by bullying. You cant just change schools when they are in the middle of exams .

[onceamai]

I'm aware you can't change schools when they are in the middle of exams which is precisely why she is changing after Year 8 - because I can't risk her future academic success any longer and I am satisfied that disruption during lessons will be dealt with at the new school. Believe me, my dd hasn't been bulllied, I am only too well aware of what happens to the girls who have been and my dd is just upset because she has witnessed it. I have had four meetings with the headteacher and many informal discussions with senior governors; the reason they cannot permanently exclude two to three ill behaved and disruptive girls is because they have to continue to pay for them to educated and budgets at present are very tight. I disagree with this requirement and a system that allows children like this to remain in an environment that is otherwise very good just to rain on the parade of everyone else in the community.

[cinpin]

In the exclusion post you say your daughter comes home in tears , why would you not call this bullying. May be you should accept this.

[sunshinenanny]

ohceamai, you do seem to be contradicting yourself on the bullying issue! but whatever the facts in your daughter's case I wish you well in your quest to find the perfect school for her but I too know of a child who was bullied at a private school. There are good and bad schools in both the private and public.

[cinpin]

No it was not you it was on the exclusion post it was onceamai. In my friends experience the private school would not accept the school had a bullying problem and would not address it. My childs scool has excluded 14 pupils in eight months so it cannot be that hard.

[JoanofArgos]

But, Mumslife, the parents of the bullies are all paying big bucks too: how keen do you think the business is to lose that?

[quirrelquarrel]

"Ive had many calls from his Year head, all relating to very minor and petty incidents during english lessons, something I would expect any decent teacher to handle as part of normal day to day teaching"

Yes, this is exactly the kind of reasoning which eases kids into the mindset of "let's not bother making an effort, we can get away with anything, we'll put in 30% and the teacher will just have to make up the other 70%". Then the teacher turning a blind eye on everything (inc. bullying, in the end) will still be railed against as "useless", kids twenty years younger than them being all disparaging and proud about the fact that "they can't even control us".

Sorry not much useful to add, I just get a bit fed up with this kind of attitude.

[quirrelquarrel]

That's true- but I think it's very easy to expect a lot more of teachers than they really should have to give...it must be v. scary to stand in front of a class of smart alecks who think they all count and think rationally and then care about the little twits who don't even think themselves.

Sorry if my post was a bit strong. But teachers shouldn't have to be doing the disciplining...the kids should be filing into school ready for learning/boredom, and "ready" should mean heads up, mouths closed, minds switched on, regardless of their fusses re: "I can't possibly concentrate without my iPod" etc. In the end, kids will be the victims- in a roundabout way. If they are put at the centre of everything, what message are they going to get? We're surrounded by an atmosphere which has only been around for the last 10-20 years...it's hard to deal with the consequences without a prototype. And, as you say, if figures of authority don't stick to their guns, what hope do we have of maintaining anything else than what we've got?

[activate]

YABU

your child is behaving like a brat and you are condoning it - repeatedly

this is why he is at the stage he is

he is seen as a disruptive influence and he has a lot of work to do to prove that he isn't

take his mobile off him, give his xbox to school - tell him he can have them back when he has checked his attitude and is doing much better in school

[activate]

you absoutley have the problem bang to rights here

" whilst I acknowledge that my DS is a pain in the bum SOMETIMES, this isnt a regular, consistent pattern of behaviour"

the problem is that in English it is a regular, consistent pattern of behaviour as you have already pointe dout

[EvilTwins]

"The teacher can't control them" is one of my least favourite (and oft repeated) comments. Why should the teacher HAVE to "control" them. Are they a bunch of animals? If a child gets to secondary school with a lack of SELF control, it's hardly the fault of a teacher, is it?

[Goblinchild]

'The teacher can't control them'
That's because we have no sanctions that work against the truly hard cases and shock collars are banned by various international laws.

Some children are so damaged in various ways by the time they hit school that it takes years to try and establish some kind of relationship with them built on liking or understanding or compromise, and that's in primary.
If that fails, it's so much harder in secondary.
Cheeky chappies sometimes succeed in RL, but sometimes they end up unemployable or unable to be trusted with anything of import.

[EvilTwins]

Goblinchild - I know how disempowered teachers are. I just hate the "teacher can't control them" line - it's as if they are animals - kids crow about teachers not being "able" to "control" them like it's something to be proud of. FFS - when are they going to realise that in REAL life, no one is going to bother - if they exhibit a lack of self control when they're out in the big bad world of employment, it's no one's fault but their own. My parents would have gone ballistic if I'd bragged about a teacher who "couldn't control us" when I was at school. It pains me that some parents think this is acceptable - like the kids are allowed to set teachers some kind of test to see how controlling they are, and if they fail to be able to do so, then it gives them license to behave like neanderthals from that moment on, and blame the teacher when they underachieve at the end of their schooling.

Rant over.

[Rosebud05]

Teenagers are a different species.

Honestly. Biologically and hormonally their bodies and brains work differently to those of younger children or adults.

Arguments like 'when you're out in the world of work' don't make a dent on their radar.

[cinpin]

I think some teachers should treat children with respect and maybe they will get it back . I have seen some brilliant teachers that get children interested in the lesson they are teaching, this is the lesson where children behave.

[Goblinchild]

You can be polite, inspirational and treat children with respect, but a few will still see that as weakness because of their experiences out of school.
A few disruptive children is all it takes to ruin the learning within a class.

(Fondly remember the time we blockaded a Jack-the-lad in a stockroom at secondary because we were sick of him ruining our science lessons. I was 13 and agreed with positive action at the time)

[onceamai]

Totally agree with Evil Twins and Goblinchild. I have been astounded by the professionalism of some of the teachers at dd's school and the way in which they have inspired her. On the whole, the school is fantastic but there is a hard core of about six girls who have created havoc, disrupted lessons, not settled down after 18 months at secondary and the school, in my opinion, has not dealt with the issue. Lessons continue to be disrupted, this group of girls has created a reign of terror and many of the quieter girls have been bullied unmercifully. DD has managed to avoid being bullied but there is a constant fear that it could be her next. Some examples of bad behaviour are: incessant swearing, calling a teacher gay, playing with a lighter in class, following the quiet girls at break and lunch time, confronting a friend of dd's on the way home, suspected stealing - a group of quiet girl's purses went missing on one occasion. The school's response to this is that the incidents are isolated and a day of two after the event they cannot prove anything and there is little further action they can take because the exclusion system works against them. This system and the inspection system were set up by former teachers were they not; or former teachers at least advised those responsible for making policy decisions. Did they not appreciate what went on in schools and do they not understand that the current systems gives power to the minority and takes away educational opportunity from the majority meaning that teachers in state secondary schools are set up to fight a losing battle. The current ethos does not prepare young people in any way for a successful adult life. It may exist to ensure they have a good handful of paper qualifications but it does not instill life skills or discipline.

I may be very old but such behaviour was not tolerated when I was at school; at DS's independent school when a pupil told a teacher he was gay and made some derogatory comments he received a three day suspension and was gently invited to leave at the end of the year.

I have never had a school telephone me about the behaviour of either child; they have been taught boundaries and know that there would be hell to pay if that happened. They are normal teenagers with many friends.

I appreciate that dd is in a privileged position and a part of me would like to stay at the school and get involved as a governor but we are in a position to move her, feel she would be happier and that her overall educational achievements will be enhanced where there is an atmosphere more conducive to learning and where parents on the whole support the teaching staff.

[lancashirewife]

I think there is more to this than meets the eye

You think 1 or 2 phone calls a term from school is normal??? From one subject??? There are serious problems here. If you think teaching staff have the time and energy to do this for every child that slightly misbehaves then you are wrong. Phone calls home rarely happen IME unless there is a serious issue. (

I seriously think you need to arrange another meeting with the school and find out whats really going on. What are you going to do when your son moves through the school and has another teacher, in another subject that he doesn't 'get on with'??

[lancashirewife]

Why thank you mumslife Have only done 6 years teaching in a secondary school, but really think 1 or 2 phone calls very so often should be setting alarm bells off.....