School Appeal - Opinons pls. (sorry V.Long)

[leiela]

Ugh ... My appeal was last tues and i still haven't heard anything sob

I'd like your opinion on what happened because im spinning myself around in circles.

The LEA did there bit first then i was asked if i had any questions.

So i asked why i was refused criteria 2 (which is entry under medical and or social grounds, I applied for critrea 2 because my son has ASD) They it was because my chosen school doens't have an ASD unit therefore for "that" school he didn't qualify for that critirea.

So i then asked in that case since my chosen school has no specialist unit who could get critera 2 for it??

The LEA guy, fumbled abit and avoided the question and basically said while i built a strong case for wanting the school i hadn't proven that the other school's couldnt provide the same care. His argument is that all school's should be able to care for ASD children.

At which point i replied saying that i wasn't aware i had to prove reasons why the other schools couldn't take care of him, but to be fair i rang up the LEA and asked what i would need to provide to get him into critirea 2 in september. Only to be told that he didn't qualify because he wasnt statmented. So if i was short on evidence it was only because the LEA refused to tell me what i needed and insisted from the word go that i didn't qualify before knowing anything more about my son.

This is when the panel seemed to get intrested.

I explained that i'd phoned when i was filling in my origional school choice paperwork and had asked what i needed to be concidered under criteria 2 and was told in no uncertain terms i didn't qualifiy because he didn't have a statement. Hence in september my original application didn't ask for criteria 2 or mention his SEN.

I then said that when i got my allocated school i was so upset i spoke to the choice advisor and she asked me why i didn't apply under criteria 2 like she'd suggested in september? I explained and she replied saying that the LEA was wrong i didn't need a statment at all and that i should ring back and get it changed.

I rang back the LEA admission's team asking what i would need to do to be re-allocated, only to be told yet again my son didn't qualify without a statement. All she cared about was the statement and wasn't interested in anything else i had to say or evidence of SEN i could provide.

However because my Choice advicer insisted the woman on the phone was wrong i decided there was no harm sending in a letter stating my case and requestion pretty please could they re-allocate me.

Phew ... Anyway the letter came back and they refused my application. (about 3 weeks ago)

I explained to the panel that its quite possible i didn't provide enough information but i didn't realise that i had to list reason's why other school's couldn't care for him and had infact been told it was very bad to put down other school's. So instead my application focused on my son's needs and the things my chosen school could do for him.

I also said that i felt that if instead of being told twice, applying was pointless i'd been told what i asked, which was what evidence i needed to provide i would have done a much better job making my case.

The panel at this point questioned the LEA about it, asking why i would be told such a thing when it was clearly wrong etc. The LEA guy didn't know and couldn't explain it but asked for the woman's name and he said he would take it up with her.

One of the guys on the panel nodded and say's it sounds like you where really missinformed?

I nodded and said yes i think so, but i blame myself i should have triple checked back in september, tbh if i'd have understood what a statement did better i would have known critera 2 wasn't for statemented children and that now it was my understanding that statemented children are above all catagories? so critirea could only be for un-statmented children really.

So they then asked, why didn't i have a statement?

I explained that i was told By CAMH's that a statement would outline requirements for the school and that because the school my son go's to have been providing all his needs without a statement i didn't need it. However i would change it should i ever feel his need's were no-longer being met.

One of the panel guys rolled his eyes ?? good thing bad thing i have no idea??

Anyway ... at this point .. the lead panel guy said my document's seemed to explain my case well so he didn't want to upset me further by making me go though it all ... but was there anything i wanted to say. (i'd pretty much cried though the whole thing till that point)

I waffled on abit about my son and how he is so much more than "just autistic" and that it's been a long battle to work out what was wrong with him and that i when they told me he was ASD i was shocked and scared, i'd expected alot of things that that was never one of them. That i'd refused the diagnosis because i was in shock and that i was looking to have that rectified ASAP but a lack of statement and diagnosis made it no less real for him.

i explained that because he is quiet and good at his school work he get's over looked, that sometimes i think it's easier for parent's to get help when their children are disruptive or very obviously distressed and that just because my little boy was quiet and didn't complain didn't mean he wasn't suffering.

I really really needed a school that would take care of him and wouldnt lose him in the crowd of noisier more confident children who scream and shout when they are unhappy.

That perhaps i didn't have anything stronger to go on than my gutt but i knew this was the school to do it.

And then that was it ... they said they didn't have any questions for me and it was over.....

At my last appeal they asked 1000's of questions about EVERYTHING!!! this one they asked none?? surely thats a bad sign right?? (i lost my last appeal)

Why didn't they ask any questions!!!?? or even really get me to outline my case? didnt they want to know or is it possible my application document alone was enough?

Perhaps it's a good sign that they didn't ask you any questions. Don't want to build your hopes up but maybe you'll win it.

It certainly sounds as if the panel were sympathetic towards you.

I've got everything crossed for you.

That is a long post!

Taking it from the top, the LA is correct to say that you would only qualify for that category if the school concerned is better able to deal with your son than other schools. The fact that your son has ASD doesn't give him priority for all schools, only for those schools which have special provision for ASD pupils. On the other hand the advice you were given about criteria 2 was incorrect. Your understanding is correct. Statemented children don't go through the normal admissions process and cannot be refused entry even if the school is full up so they definitely don't fall into special medical or social needs. So their advice was evidence of maladministration. The interesting question is whether it was purely bad advice or an indication that they are operating admissions incorrectly.

I wouldn't say the lack of questions was necessarily a bad sign. It may indicate that the panel feel they know enough to decide your case without needing any clarification from you. For example, they may all feel that there is clear evidence of maladministration by the LA which has cost your son a place at this school. You say you'd been crying through the whole thing. I would imagine the chair and the panel wanted to save you from further unnecessary stress. However, they should have checked you had said everything you wanted to say and asked all the questions you wanted to ask. If they didn't do that and your appeal fails you have reason to refer the matter to the Local Government Ombudsman.

I would be interested to hear what the panel decide.

I have nothing constructive to add but I think it's terrible that you haven't heard after a week - one way or the other.

We went to appeal on the Thursday and had our letter on Saturday morning.

I hope, in your case, that no news is good news!

You have my sympathy! The waiting is horrible! My ds has ASD too, and it was a big part of our case.

We won our case, and it took nine days including the weekend for us to find out that we had won. Even then they only told me because I phoned and asked, because they said I would know within 5 days and I clearly didn't. It took a further three days for the letter to come confirming it.

They didn't ask us any questions either, which I felt really let down and deflated about because I had spent ages trying to think of this they might ask. I was sure it was a bad sign, but obviously it wasn't!

You just really don't know. When I got our letter detailing why the panel had decided to allow our appeal, it talked about things that I thought were not that important and barely mentioned the things that I thought were cruicial. Awful as it is, there is just no point trying to second guess what the panel are thinking. Us parents are completely in the dark until the letter comes.

Good Luck!

I agree with all that Prh47bridge says.

In particular, it does need to be understood that the fact that a child has special needs does not automatically give them priority for any school of the parents' choosing - for the priority to apply, the school in question has to be better able to meet the child's needs than other schools. On the information here, it's not clear to me whether you are arguing that this school is better-equipped than others to care for your son or whether you simply prefer this school to others. The difference is important, because if there isn't something about the school - specialist facilities, a dedicated unit etc - which objectively makes it better at caring for children with ASD, the panel may think that the misinformation about category 2 hasn't made any difference to the outcome.

Bubblecoral - I'm glad to hear of your success. I'm interested that the things you thought weren't significant were significant to the panel (and vice versa). That is often the gist of the advice that we give on all the various appeals threads - things which seem hugely important to parents (such as going to the same school as friends or the convenience of the school run) cut very little ice at appeals but there may be other aspects which make the case winnable.

The school has a very good reputation for dealing with ASD children which is why i wanted it, the teachers are very clued in. but your right they have no formal ASD provision. Honestly though it's my opinion that the CAN deal with my son better than any other school in the area during my visit's (3 of) they where able to explain in great detail the stratergy's they used with ASD boys which none of the other school's could.

Tbh i would have accepted that reasoning but it's the fact that they didnt' tell me the real reason and it felt like they where making exuses.

Telling me he didn't qualify was wrong i do qualify just perhaps not for that school and that is what should have been explained, not the statemented children only rubbish they tried to feed me.

Boohisss....

I guess im really stressed because if my appeal fail's i don't have a school for my son and there is 0% chance i will concider his assigned school.

who told me and i Quote : "90% of our children have SEN so we can't make special provison's, but you will find your son toughen's up quickly"

it just shows the lack of understanding of the school ASD children do not just toughen up.

If the LA has ASD special provision in schools then this will require a statement of special needs. As you do not have a statement of special needs you would never have been considered for an ASD special provision. So if the LA have a medical category it has to be for those pupils and parents of pupils who have a medical reason for requesting a specific school but who do not qualify for a statement. As such the advice you were getting from the LA was total rubbish.
The problem is that I could also see the LA not allowing you to be considered as category 2 under medical for ASD as the normal process for ASD is obviously to statement where they think it is appropriate.
Where the panel sits in this will be interesting but I would not read anything into the level of questioning, they will simply ask enough questions to ensure that they understand the situation to the best of their ability.

The whole statementing process is a load of rubbish too.

My son doens't qualify for a statement because his current school are dealing with his needs without one. It's not that he's needs are not great enough or disability not severe enough but because he's coping and the school he's at atm is brilliant and do everything he need's.

He's currently getting ALOT of extra support from the school but because the school just 'did it' he isn't seen as failing or struggling. The whole idea of a statement is to get the help you need you arn't getting without it.

the whole system is flawed if you ask me, your child has to fail before it's recognised that help is needed. The school he's at have got the right idea they just gave the support without me having to bully them into it.

Unfortunatly because of that it's been very hard to prove my son's special needs are as severe as a statemented child's who is perhaps going to a less willing and capable school, because he's thriving and doing well.

This is all rubbish ..... do i really have to let my son fail before people recognise he has needs? I feel like im being punished for picking the 'right' school the first time around and being able to manage his needs as a team (parent/school)

Bah...

Also an ASD child is likey to cope in a small school with people he know's and an enviroment he feel's familiar and safe in.

Take him out of that, shove him in a new school and the ball game compleately changes.

But yet again, as much as me the parent and his current school as aware of how much that ball game changes and how distressing my son is likely to find the change.

It seem's impossible to get the support in place that could negate it untill it's too late and he's already had a total meltdown.

I won!!!!! whooooo hoooooooo !!!!!

I haven't had an offical confirmation yet but the SENCO of his current school just pulled me aside. He recived an E-Mail today from the LEA stating that my son's school placement for next year has been changes to the school i appealed for. Which must mean i won!!!!!

I am Soooo happy i can barely sit down!!!

It may not mean that you won - it would be highly improper for the school to be told before you - and it may just be that something you said to the LEA convinced them to change their allocation. Anyway, that hardly matters. You got the school place you wanted. Well done!

I'm a panel member and we normally tell parents the outcome on the day unless there are other appeals for the same school.

Exactly, inthesticks. That's what puzzles me here. We ring parents on the day of the last appeal for that school (so, very often, on the day of their appeal).

I know there where 68 appeal's for the school i wanted and i was one of the first. My sister in law works for a different LEA and she was confused by the wait as well as she said she always rang the same day and didn't understand why i was being told i had to wait a week and a half for an answer?

I guess my panel just do things abit differently?! I don't know never done this before, i don't care ... hated the wait but it looks like it was worth it.

WELL DONE! Pour yourself a . You deserve it.

Really pleased for you and your DS

YAY! Well done and congratulations!

Fwiw, we had to wait well over a week, and the school that we won the appeal for was told before we were. The La told me because it was taking so long and I rang them, and then the letter from the school asking if we wanted to accept the place arrived the day before the letter from the LA.