Henrietta Barnett - worth applying or not?

[Dancergirl]

We're looking at the private sector - see my other post, especially like St Helen's.

On the state school front, we like Watford Grammar and Parmiters (but out of catchment so a small chance of getting a place at either). JFS will probably also be another choice. We live in Stanmore so get 6 choices of secondary school.

I can't decide to apply to HBS or not. It's hugely competitive I know - over 1,000 sitting for 90 odd places. But the advantage is there is no catchment and I know there is a school minibus which serves Stanmore.

Dd is a bright, good all-rounder but not super-bright. I don't know what chance she has of getting a place and I'm also not sure about the ethos of the school. Is it v pushy in a NLCS sort of way? If so, then it's not for us.

And if we do apply, what order do I put the schools on the form?

Well many of the girls I know who go to nlcs also got in to hbs and vice versa.
I don't know how pushy hbs is but many of the parents are so there are definitely some similarities there.
If nlcs is not for you then there's a chance you might feel the same about hbs. But you need to visit the school and form your own opinion.
You should order your state school options in terms of your real preferences as that's the order in which you would be offered a space.

Hi Dancergirl,
Right off, I have no direct experience of HB but I can tell you that the head is ex-NLCS (see professional development comment on other thread). Have 2 friends who's DD's went. One left because it just didn't have the 'goodies' that come with a well resourced private school and was all academics. The other is very happy. You will not find the level of intake is much different between HB, Habs and NLCS at 11+. The accelerated stream at JFS is very good from what I hear. Not an option for us under the old rules and my issues with sectarian schooling. Have you looked at Jcoss?

Hi Dancergirl - I too know nothing about HB except that it's v competitive entry. These days I think the numbers for places at the best state schools have gone up massively, so I think you're doing the best thing by applying to both state and private. If you had choice left that you would have otherwise filled with a throwaway/less desired school, then what the heck, you could give HB a shot, but if you've got all 6 slots filled with schools you'd be really happy for DD to go to then if it were me, I wouldn't.

I'm still hoping that I'll be seeing you at St H though ;-) I'm pretty sure I know which primary your DD is at, and there is a girl in my DD1's class who just joined from there in January, and she saw a few girls sitting for next year too.

horsemad - ironically we wouldn't have qualified under old rules either (DH not Jewish and civil marriage), we could under new rules, but happy with St H for the girls. Might consider JFS/JCOSS/Yavneh when the time comes for DS, as fewer boys/mixed schools that fit what we want, but TBH we are so far out in the wrong direction that I doubt we'd get a place even though I can now meet the relig stuff...anyway not sure we want a faith school either...

Hey Stik,
It is a tough one. I just can't wrap my head around educating my children with only other Jewish kids. I'm very concerned to raise my kids as feminists so I wouldn't have managed a school with a US ethos. I suppose we pick our ghettos in this system. DD might have liked HB but the decision for DS had to be made first and we are not blessed with a boys' grammar around here. Our primary options pretty much sucked from the start and all decisions flowed from there.
I've heard really lovely things about St. H, though. A classmate of DD's was there and really liked it.

Have seen JCoss and didn't like it at all. We def liked JFS best out of the Jewish schools.

If we put HBS down 3rd or 4th on the list, do we have the same chance as someone who puts it first? Or does the school treat everyone the same regardless of what number you put the school?

Never done a state school application - but I read v thoroughly the booklet on starting primary school from our borough (just in case!). It quite clearly said that the schools applied to do NOT know what preference you have listed them as (that sounds ungrammatical, sorry). Therefore you should definitely list the schools in the true order of your own priority as nobody will be any the wiser apparently...

Yes, the ranking doesn't disadvantage your dd at all. She will have the same chance as every other girl taking the test.
However if she gets into a higher ranked school than HBS, she wouldn't be offered HBS (even if she got a qualifying score in the exams). Which is fair, as you ranked the other school higher. So you really should rank schools in your true order of preference.

There is a however tho' - if your DD does exceptionally well in the exam, HBS would likely write or call you and offer you a very high place on the waiting list. WHich is a rather sneaky way of getting the best performers into the school regardless of where they ranked the school

btw, interested to know what put you off JCOSS?

thenevernever - think I posted about JCoss somewhere else but it was just too touchy-feely for my liking. The children (sorry, 'students') seem to be on a par with the teachers and there seemed to be a lot of not criticising children's work due to fear of demoralising them. And the library was very poor with a suggestion that they might get First News when I asked about lack of newspapers and periodicals! My 8 year old reads First News, it's not what I would expect from a high achieving secondary school.

Plus dh thinks it's too far! And also I think IF we were to go down the Jewish school route (probably won't, I'm not a big fan of faith schools) then I would prefer it to be broadly orthodox.

Just read your other post about jcoss. Very interesting as the feedback we've had from neighbours who have sent their child there is completely different!
They are not happy with the school at all but for very different reasons and apparently there's a number of them with similar views. Rather than the touchy-feely approach, they feel that in a number of areas the school is very detached from the pupils. Rules imposed with no sense of proportion, an obsession with regimented discipline (in areas where its not really required) etc etc.
In a way, they've described the school 'management' as obsessed with delivering a top rated school and rather nervous of failing - consequently they seem to be following 'the manual' to the letter with very little personal input, common sense or empathy for the pupils.
As many parents have put a lot of their hopes and dreams into this school it seems there are very few willing to speak out. Most parents wouldn't qualify for alternatives like jfs hence are reluctant to raise their heads above the parapet.

Btw, the thing that really shocked me about jcoss was the fact that the school seems to put real pressure on parents to contribute large monthly sums - including calling them at home, writing personal letters etc if they fail to set up direct debits. Two of my 3 dc are at faith schools but we have never been sent chasing letters when we've forgotten (or chosen not) to send our termly contributions. So I was rather this.

I'd disagree - I know a number of genuinely very happy parents with kids at JCOSS. Re the newspapers, it probably has more to do with the fact that the oldest kids are only 13 - I assume once they get older pupils they will get proper papers! But certainly, I think it's fair to say they are aiming high academically.

Re HBS, I went there and I'd always planned to send my DD there. But was put off when we visited because yes, it did - no matter what they claimed to the contrary - feel like an academic hothouse, which was absolutely not what I wanted for (very able) DD - and not at all what it was like when I went.

thenevernever - that's interesting. What are your neighbours going to do, move their child or not?

That's terrible regarding pressurising parents for money!! Completely inappropriate and it would make me very angry.

dancer - they would like to move their child but can't afford private (3 dc!) and other local state options are not particularly good - which was why they were so initially pleased with the opening of JCOSS. I think their strategy is to cross their fingers and hope the school settles down a bit and develops a consistent culture, its not even been a full year so I'm sure it will change.

b&b - I certainly didn't mean to imply that theres a majority of people with similar negative views. I think my neighbours feel very much in the minority of parents, but I know they are not the only family with reservations. What I thought interesting was that dancergirl's reservations about the school was so completely different to theirs!

re financial contributions - chasing for payments is not likely to be well known as an issue in schools as I suspect most families pay automatically.
It might be a 'good open day' question tho: "what contributions do you ask of parents at this school, and do you ever chase up those parents who fail to contribute?"