DD1 determined to go to Cambridge - advice please

[LovelyDaffs]

She's only in year 7 at a very academic grammar school, I know it's obviously very early days and she may well change her mind many many times but I could really do with some advice. There are two elements to advice I need really, one is how I deal with the more emotional side of this - at the moment she is being very black and white about it, it's Cambridge or nothing and clearly there are no guarantees that she's even cambridge material let alone get in. She has really flourished since starting at the grammar, it's so lovely to see her enjoying school and doing so well that I want to do everything to encourage her, but at the same time I don't want to set her up for a fall. Any pointers would be very much appreciated, she's the eldest of three so it's all new to me.

I'd also love to know what's involved in attempting to get into Cambridge, what kind of academic record they look for? what kind of student? are there things she could be doing now to help her in the future?

Oh she's thinking of English or History.

Emmanuel is still up there, it seems. Does v well in the ?Tompkins? table? Hard to judge which college a candidate will be able to get into/where they will be comfortable. Open applications seem a bit risky to me, since in our case ds has clear likes and dislikes. Would be gutting to be offered a place in a college you really didn't like that much. [Albeit ungrateful!]

The Alternative Prospectus (written by students) can be worth a look for ideas about colleges to choose. The feel of the colleges can be quite different. I don't know the Cambridge colleges but I would suggest looking at the collage bar, library and all the religious bits on a visit. I don't know whether this was anyone else's experience but I found that some aspects of college life in some colleges were dominated by religious life, which is lovely if that's your thing but less so if it's not.

My dh went to cambridge. He certainly didn't have extracurricular activities. But he has a very laid back attitude and a sharp mind. His interview was much more about the way in which he thought than knowledge per se. He read Archeology and anthropology and they were looking for someone who had a keen interest in the subject.

I interviewed for cambridge to do medicine and flaked at the first interview. I got asked fairly aggresively about being a white south african and my role in apartheid and a right to education in this country. It threw me completely and at the time upset me. but now I can see they were trying to see how I handled pressure. honestly having friends who were medics at cambridge they were right to reject me. I wouldn't have suited it all but loved the uni I went to instead.

Just wanted to add that I wasn't an amazing student, never straight A, didn't really do much in the way of extracurricular (really had to spin out my application form!). I did French and Spanish, and the Director of Studies in my college was a German prof, so when I had the interview with him, he asked me to talk about a book I had read recently in English. Luckily I had just finished reading Wild Swans by Jung Change which was really interesting, so I had loads to talk about. As a result I'd advise anyone, any subject, to have a good book that you've read out of school up your sleeve to talk about.

inter - yes, if your DS has preferences then an open app may not be for him. I wasn't bothered so it worked out well. Which colleges does he like?

I would urge people to check out the accommodation in a college, because some of it can be quite shoddy ( v few bathrooms for example). In the end I was pleased to be at a modern college with good rooms, with hindsight that was important to me...

Hi, I would echo most of what's already been said. I studied at Cambridge in the eighties and this year I've been through the Cambridge admissions process with my son who is now holding an offer for entry next year (pending grades!). There is loads of information on applying (including a link to the admissions tutors guide) here www.admin.cam.ac.uk/offices/admissions/.

From the open days we went to, and through my son's own experience of the process, the key important attributes are strong GCSEs (it seems most applicants these days have at least 6-8 A*s) and a genuine passion for the subject, demonstrated by concrete evidence of activites outside of school or beyond the school curriculum that relate to the subject. Extracurricular activities not of relevance to the subject didn't seem to be relevant-my son wasn't asked about anything like that. I think giving your daughter experience of talking with adults about subjects that interest her at school is beneficial-even if she is highly able and doesn't need a tutor in English, say, it might still be useful to get one anyway to give her experience of articulating ideas and thinking through issues in a one to one situation, which she would need to be able to do in the interview. Good luck!

I also decided v young I wanted Cambridge, Got in, turned it down. I don't think my school ever forgave me and I know my parents were deeply disappointed. Honestly though it was the best decision for me because I wouldn't have suited Cambridge at all! So don't build it up too much and make it clear she can back out at any stage otherwise she might feel that she's locked into this choice.

Also a love of the subject is far more important than the university, just in case she decides she wants to do something Cambridge don't offer and feels she can't pursue it because she's committed herself to the university already.

Yellowstone, my DS2 is at Durham reading History and having a wonderful time. He was rejected from Oxford after an interview. On paper he was an ideal candidate (all A*s at GCSEs, 4 x A levels in "proper" subjects). He is v v happy at Durham, I'm not sure he could be any happier. Oxford's loss!

pippop 1 I'm glad (as a Durham graduate myself). Happiness or at least contentment is the main thing and Oxford/ Cambridge doesn't give any guarantee. It's essential to realise the intrinsic value of other places as well. V.v. happy sounds good, quite hard to better!

Good luck to her but really think you/she should keep eye on the prize without getting too obsessed with it. DW's sister went and although already at highly academic girls' school, Cambridge entrance was not made to be an issue by family or school until she'd done her GCSE's. It is piling on an awful lot of pressure and it is not the end of the world if it doesn't happen.

DW's sister did go and had a very good social life and still best friends with most of Uni friends she made there, but has struggled in later life with anything akin to failure. Always being the best and excelling academically is a lot to live up to in life. Incidentally whilst all her Cambridge friends do have very high powered jobs (although interestingly a lot of the women have gone from being corporate lawyers to less stressful career trajectories), the friend who has done best of all went to Bristol University....
Friend has son who has always been very academic at a highly popular London semi-selective school and everyone thought he would get into Cambridge but didn't. He went down the esoteric subject route too. Very, very disappointed and no doubt will still get brilliant A Level grades and due to go to another highly successful but very different type of Uni instead. He had a brilliant personal statement and school was convinced he would get in too. It is still a bit of an unknown as to why some pupils do get in and others don't but on paper he ticked all the right boxes and is a very personable young man too...
I guess you must just try to focus but without thinking it is the be-all and the end-all.

Stix, don't really want to out myself/him on here, but he is interested in quite a few of them. Part of it is being able to 'rank' his own ability; some clearly take the top rank students; hard for him to know where he does rank. Especially since obviously it's such a privilege to be offered a place at any college.

of the people i know who went there, they were all clever but not geeky with it. They read widely and I remember our Head Boy did public speaking competitions and was very confident. All of them could talk on their subject at length. I do remember a friend of mine whose daughter studied pharmacy and her best friend went to Cambridge and was v.unhappy for the first term. She went from being the brightest girl in the class to one of the class. A lot of big fish in a smaller pond so to speak. There are other Unis tho' not just in the UK, but with fees rising some of the Euro Uni's or even the US (Harvard/Yale/Princeton) may be affordable.

If its Cambridge which is the goal, above doing a particular subject, you might look into application rates and work backwards - English is a long shot but more 'obscure' subjects have a better 'hit' rate (eg Ancient Norse at Oxford has a 1 in 3 success rate, accoridng to my son's careers master)

Personally, I'd say studying the subject of your choice is more important than the place you study it, but tht's from the mum of two who have so far not been offered places for English at Oxford!

Sorry to disagree thekidsmom but going for Oxford or Cambridge as a goal in itself is probably very unhealthy.

Loads of good advice here. I've been involved in English undergraduate admissions for the past few years at Cambridge though i'm not an interviewer.

Main points i would reiterate:

1. There's no need to get worked up about this aged 11. Allow your daughter's natural enthusiasm for her subjects to shine through. Hot-housing or overworking her will not help at all. She may discover other interests as she goes along, try not to narrow down your options.

2. Don't worry about extra curricular activities. Let her do what she wants. Developing confidence and having fun away from her academic studies is useful. Once she's a little further on in school life she could think about finding relevant extra curriculars eg debating, school mock elections, work experience, or drama. But this would be more to widen her own experience of the subject than to fill her CV or impress interviewers.

3)If she has to make decisions about what courses to take, i'd aim to have a good spread of GCSEs including a foreign language. Avoid overly vocational courses. She'll need about 6 out of 10 at A or A*.

4. Good luck to your daughter at her new school... come back in four or five years to discuss the finer points of colleges, "tripos" paths and interview technique!

I agree yellowstone - its not healthy but I was just saying that it is one thing to think about - I did say I'd say studying the subject of your choice is more important than the place you study it which is my personal view...

Yes I read that thekidsmom, but you also raised it as a possible line to pursue!

Since your two DD's stuck to their English application despite the intense competition, I can also see that you don't advocate it for your own (which is good!).

Sorry, I see they might not or not both be DDs..

It might be an idea to let your DD see some other Universities. Not in a 'would you like to go here instead' way - which would just get her back up, but in a 'here we are in this lovely town, and oh, look there's the university' sort of way. It might help give her some concept that there are alternatives beyond Oxbridge.

I love the campus at Canterbury, high on a hill overlooking the town. Reading has some lovely open spaces on it's campus and I also love the feel of the centre of Birmingham campus with the clock tower and old buildings.

Nottinham round the lake is v pretty too! Well it was on the sunny Open Day when we visited.

When I was 11 I wanted to be an air hostess. Then I thought I ought to do something a bit more academic and after looking at the sits vac in the evening paper I fixed on bilingual secretary. Then I wrote an essay on Alexander Fleming and decided I would be a doctor and do research into microbiology. Later I learned something about Freud and concluded that my real vocation was to be a psychiatrist. (I think I was 13 by this time.) I didn't end up doing any of those things. 11 is still very, very young. Some people set their heart on something at that age and stick to it but my hunch is that most don't.

Agree strongly with LondonMother. I spend my time telling my DC 's to keep an open mind and keep their options open (in general, not specifically about Oxford or Cambridge). Definitely setting your heart on Cambridge alone at such a young age could so easily lead to horrible disappointment and a quite unneccessary and potentially very damaging sense of failure.

It may be no co-incidence that those who've said they have DC's there or at Oxford also seem to be the ones who told their DC's not to worry about it.

Concentrate on picking the right subject, and then the right place to study that subject. Year 7 is quite young to be so focussed on where you might want to study. Cambridge might not be the right place and the style of teaching at Cambridge might not be right. They have very short, very intense terms, and your DD might prefer a different learning style. I'd certainly avoid doing English, bearing in mind you'll be paying at least £9,000 in tuition fees. I'd want a little more input than you get for English for £3,000 a term.

Most important though, if, by the time she's ready to choose where to study and she still wants to go to Cambridge and it's the right decision, support her in every way. They don't care where students come from, all they care about is academic ability and an ability to cope with their teaching style.