English tuition - where now?

[circular]

I originally posted here about a year ago www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/972516-Clash-of-personalities-with-teacher?pg=4

Although DD1 is not having any issues with her current teacher, she is still only working at a level 5a/6c in English.
The school don't see it as a problem as she is targeted a C grade.

The issues are though

• There is a strong possibility the school will only allow her to do the Foundation papers
• From a level 5 at KS2 it seems there has been very little inprovement
• She hopes to do Music at a decent Uni and wants to teach

We had no luck finding a tutor on recommendation. Tried many of the Mums and anyone I could think that worked in a school. Many knew good English teachers, bu none that offered private tuition. DD did not want me to get her school involved or ask for recommendations there.

So she started with a tutor a couple of months ago that came from an Agency. The tutor is quite elderly and does not currently teach in any schools. DD is happy to go there, and likes her. But after the first few weeks says she is no longer learning anything. From what I can gather form DD they are working mainly on the set book DD is studying in class, to a far more detailed level than DD thinks necessary. She has asked the tutor for more help with writing to be prepared for some particular work they will be doing in class next term, but all they seem to do is literature.
(I need to get more specifics on this, but DD is revising science at the moment and I don't want to disturb her)

I have spoken to the tutor for feedback on a few occassions, and she has told me DD is pleasant, confident, creative, a great communicator, and a very talented all-rounder. As far as English goes, there is definitely the ability there, but she has been allowed to lose focus. She also said that no way should she be taking the foundation paper, and she should be aiming for an A grade at GCSE

DD is asking for a 'better' tutor. I am still unable to get any recommendations - although Kip Mcgrath centre was mentioned. Maybe an assessment there would be a good step?

Really not sure where to go from here......

A few things:

1. If you do get her a tutor, ensure that any work you do is based on the same exam board syllabus. I get (as an English teacher) quite frustrated with parents spending loads of money on useless tuition that will not actually help students attain a higher level. Liase with the teacher.
2. English assessment criteria and levels are notoriously difficult to actually judge....which is one of the reasons they are actually being changed at the moment. Your school is almost certainly using a new(ish) system called APP, in which (it's a nightmare) children are awarded grades in 14 or so different categories for reading and writing. And, as it is totally possible for them to attain a level 7 in one, but a 3 in another, coming up with a meaningful average for report cards is awkward (and almost certainly a fiction)
3. The levels between Primary and Secondary school don't follow. I know they were designed to, but the reality is that they don't. She probably finished Primary school with a 5, but then when she moved to Secondary school this was actually not her level- so in reality it is not a case of her failing to make progress, she is just being measured in different ways.
4. If her GCSE exam board is AQA (which it probably is), then it actually won't matter what paper she is taking as students taking the foundation paper can still technically attain the top grades. Papers are marked according to exactly the same assessment criteria, but questions are worded differently to help students, on the foundation paper, attain a C. This is rarely an issue in English. What may be an issue, is whether she is being entered for English Literature or not. Check this.

The board is AQA. In the school GCSE/options booklet we have it states it is only possoble to get a C to G for foundation tier Is this incorrect?
This is for both language and Literature. She will take both, as she is in the top academic pathway.

They wonlt start the GCSE syllabus properly until next year. The reason for having the tutor now was to try ans see if this really is her level, and be prepared if she is to move down sets before the end of this year.

I understand the difference in the levels between primary and secondary, and that they do often drop in year 7 (although this only happened to her in English). But she was a 5a at the end of year 8, so it still looks like she has not improved at all this year.

I really don;t get what is going so wrong for her in English, especially as she is predicted an A in French. And same for Drama if she was to take it.

Sorry, should have added, how do we tell if this tutor is any good?

I found a tutor through www.tutorsfe.co.uk but they are North West based. They specialise in English tutors with knowledge of current specifications. My dd's tutor has an Oxford degree and current teaching exp. Only had her for a few weeks, but vvv impressed so far and we have been disappointed with tutors in the past...

No it is only possible to get a C on foundation - am English teacher who teaches AQA! If capable of at least an E grade I believe Higher paper offers best chance of at least a C, although wording of questions more difficult.

Gosh, this is awkward! But there is a way in which both me and princessglitter can be correct, as I was talking about the old AQA specification which will actually finish being examined this year (she may well not have been- and I'm afraid I am only hazily familiar with the assessment criteria for next year's lot). Here is the quote from the foundation paper marks scheme:

'TIER F
On Tier F, the questions are targeted at Grades C to G. However, it is quite possible that on an individual essay or component candidates may perform above grade C.
DECIDING ON A MARK
Examiners must use the full range of marks. Work exhibiting the highest skills should be considered for full marks.'

Basically the two papers do use the same assessment criteria and the questions are essentially the same. Unlike in many other subjects, English can be self-differentiating i.e. you can tell an A* student to write a description of their heroine- but you could also do this for an E grade student. You would, of course, get very different results.

Anyhoo, the key thing is that if there IS ANY DOUBT that your child will get a C, then please ensure that they are entered for the foundation paper. The wording of the questions is specifically designed to assist students towards that level and life can be quite awkward for them if they don't reach it. Nobody will ask them on future job/University application forms what tier they were entered for, so I always advise students to cope with the shame now for something that will potentially be beneficial to them in the future.

As far as telling whether a tutor is any good? I can't help you with finding a tutor as I don't know any English teachers who have the time, but I would ignore your child's protests at not wanting anybody to know. Whenever I find out a child (particularly at GCSE) has got a tutor, I always try and contact them directly to tell them what I think it would be useful for the child to work on. The change to a new AQA specification has thrown most English teachers I know (see the confusion between myself and princessglitter? I'm sure both of us are completely fabulous- but it's really complicated!) and the biggest danger that I can see is for some tutor, who is outside the school system, to have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

Liase with the school and ask the teacher what would be best. That way, you will at least be sure that whether the tutor is good or not, they are doing good work!

I'm an English teacher and a tutor and I would agree that a tutor who's not a teacher would not be beneficial in preparing a child for the demands of GCSE. Examiners look for very particular things when marking and a tutor who knows these things will help a child make much quicker and better progress than one who is just tutoring general skills. I don't like to mention any tutoring websites in case people think I'm advertising but there are a couple where you can read people's profiles and choose one who's a current teacher.

I would give the head of English at your daughter's school a ring. He/she will probably know of teachers from other local schools who offer private tutoring in the evenings and will most likely be able to put you in touch.

If you're worried about you daughter not reaching her potential at GCSE, as long as she is generally well-motivated and hardworking (I don't mean supergeek, just up for learning and tries to do what is asked of her), you will most probably be pleasantly surprised in the end. Most students do much better KS3-KS4 than KS2-KS3, partly because they're usually in more closely streamed classes and partly because of the sense of expectation in a GCSE class. It's not at all unusual for a pupil with a level 5a/6c at the end of year 9 to go on to achieve B grades and I have 6 pupils in my current yr 11 class in exactly that position who I hope/think may crack the A grades.

If you're worried about motivation/effort then it is definitely an idea to talk to the HOD because they may be able to take steps at school, which you could then back up at home.

Good luck - I hope all goes well for your daughter. If in doubt, get a tutor to focus on her writing to persuade and inform. Those are the big Mark-gainers in the exam.

Really confused now!

Is it or isn't it posible to gain above a C grade from the fundation paper?

I know it's early days yet, but there are definitely some Unis that want at least a B in English GCSE to sudy Music. ie. Kings College London require a B in Eng. Lang for ANY arts subject. Oxford require a B in Engl Lang for everything.

Whilst I appreciate DD is unlikely to be Oxford material (maybe not even Russell Group), it is so competitve now, many others could soon follow suit.

Tortu - with regards to not mentioning it at school, I will speak to DD again. I think she was hoping her grades would improve in time for the set decisions this year. But it has been ages b=since she has had anything marked, as the emphasis is on the year 11 GCSEs.

Does anhyone have nay thoughts / experience on Kip McGrath centres?

With AQA it's technically possible, in practice extremely rare, for students to gain a grade above a C from the foundation paper.

In the past we would enter "C target" students for the higher paper, as it seemed "easier" to get a C at higher than foundation. But this seems to have switched.

This year for the AQA there was a big difference between the AQA Papers (Section As). Sometimes slightly oddly worded questions can throw less confident candidates.

Having said that the spec is changing, so it's all different anyway.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be confusing - perhaps I didn't read your OP properly. I thought from the fact that you said your DD was at level 5/6 that she was still in yr 9. If she is, there's plenty of time for her to show her potential in the controlled assessments in yr 10; if she's already in yr 10, I'd be surprised if her teachers have made a final decision about her entry tier. It's possible to change tiers right up to the very day of the exam so nothing will be set in stone. I've never heard of a pupil entered for foundation getting above a c grade, so if you feel strongly that she should be aiming higher, she should be taking the higher paper.

I really would talk to her teacher and/or the head if English and find out what's what. Don't ring until Tuesday pm, though, as the English Lit exam is Tues am and they won't have any other thoughts in their heads until that's over.

Last post crossed with the 2 immediately before.

Spoke to DD re speaking to English Head. She still doesn't want me to as feels this will bring her onto the radar for moving down sets. She's in top set, which is probably not saying a lot for the standard of the school. Although this is the top 30 of 80/90 as the year group is split in two with sets 1 to 4 in each side. I think she still feels deep down that some of the English teachers will "have it in for her" because of her bad relationship with one teacher in yr7. That said, she has two teachers currently - one has had several complaints from the higher acheiving pupils. The othe sounds OK, although DD she talks constantly.

Whilst I would be prepared to go against what DD wants, I don't want to just yet for several reasons:

• DD is happy to go to a tutor at the moment. If she thought it had any connection to her school, she may refuse or be less co-operative
• Shes been very stressed over option choices, and is starting to regret listening to me (specifically dropping Drama in favour of triple Science) in keeping more academic options. So I need to tread carefully for now, it's a difficult age and I don't want her to lose trust and shut me out completely.
• I also thought it would be interesting to get her grades improved by an outside tutor without involving the school. Then if her school grades didn't inprove, tackling it then with the school.

So it seems we have the wronge type if tutor. I have asked for feedback/opinion on the levels DD had been given, but the tutor either doesn't want to tell me or is not in tune with NC levels. I know she has taken DD back over some very basic grammar ( plurals and word endings, stuff she did in yr4/5) as well as doing a lot of Eng Lit work with her.

My gut feeling is that her current level really is where she is at. I think it hit home to DD a few weeks ago when she read a 6 page essay that DD2 (yr3, 8yo) had written. Apart from the lack of paragraphing, grammar and vocabularly wise it was a similar standard. Except DD1 would have written less than half the amount lol.

Do you think she has an underlying difficulty that hasn't been picked up on - like dyslexia -type difficulties, or is she just not applying herself in lessons?

alittle - when we spoke to one (of her two) English teachers last parents evening she told me the tiers get decided in yr 11. She also said that DD was doing a fine - so I said 'Oh good, we can hope for at least a B then'. To which the reply was 'most likely a C'.
DD has since said that the other teacher has told the class that any one predicted below B at the end of yr9 would move down sets. She also THINKS the teacher said they would then be taking Foundation tier, but cannot be certain.

Yes, she is still yr9. Been at same level since the end of yr8, which was not especially good then.

It seems her written work is letting her down badly. To be honest, I think this is only a matter of time before this starts to catch up with her in other subjects. ie. although Geog teacher has said capable of A/A*, he sees she can understand the work then gets very frustrated that she hands something in that does not have enough information in - so he can't quite give her a level 7 for the piece.

She has (too early IMHO) the first GCSE science module at the end of this week. I know she is struggling with what constitutes the right length of answer for that. Which probably explains why Biology is her worst, as that appears to have the most writing.

Hopefully there's time to sort it all out

So is she having problems organising her work? And this is in all written subjects?

Any problems with spelling?

bigTillyMint - I think it's doubtful. Though would be happy to have her assessed to rule it out.

We were told when she was a baby that learning difficulties were possible as she was 12 weeks premature. But once she hit her milestones by the age of 2 it all seemed OK. Then no problems learning to read or write, and she never stopped chatting.

She went to a selective school on passing 7+, but felt over-pushed from yr5 onwards. She would get criticized by the teachers for only having read 5 or 6 books in a term - the average was 12. We were always told she was a delight to teach, but was more interested in everyone elses work than her own. And always that although well within the schools standards, she was never working to the best of her ability. It also took a long while for her organisational skills to come together.

She had handwriting problems at 7/8, but a school handwriting club 'by invitation only' zapped that one. Although her writting is quite large and scrawly now.

At 10 she had the reading age of 14/15 - it just hasn't inproved much since LOL.

When she started at her current school (averagish comp) she was a year or 2 ahead. So was marked as a higher acheiver, and has been allowed to coast somewhat. We weren't overly conncerned at the start, as it was giving her a chance to catch up on her music - we hadn't allowed her lessons at junior school as we didn't want her missing classes.

Now I fear she is in that large middle band that will get her 5 A to C's, and because she behaves well will be largely left to her own devices.

Maybe she has just forgotten how to learn as the school don't exactly push her. But being pushed at her previous school did little for also.

I don;t think she reads questions properly. Although she's predicted A*/A in Maths, she has never got anywhere in the junior or intermediate challenges. It's taken till now to twig there's a penalty marking system.

Crossed post again.
The tutor asked about spelling and I said 'NO'. her weekly spelling tests at junior school wer usually 8/10 ish.

BUT the tutor then came back and said it is difficult to tell how well DD can spell, as the words she is using are not challenging enough !

The organisation problems at primary school were being in the right place at the right time with the right equipment. So not just for written work. We put it down to immaturity (August born).

Never had any comments re organisation from secondary school. But then, she would have been more organised than most as she had been going to different classes with different subject teachers two years prior.

Funny thing is, she recently done very well at district level (in a practical competition) and was praised on her organisational skills for her age.

She is still very forgetful though.

OK, so there could be some specific difficulties there. It may be worth trying to get her assessed by an SpLD specialist (Specific Learning Difficulties) - not to get a diagnosis, but more to see where she needs support and what needs to be done. If she has been enjoying her tutor, then maybe you could capitalise on it by finding someone who would be able to work on better organisation and writing essays, etc.

It could also be that she over-acheived at the private school and is really just working at her correct level now, IYSWIM.

Just read your last post - organisational problems like those are linked with dyslexic type difficulties. She may well fare mush better at a practical level!

BigTilly - not sure if she overacheived at the private school. They always insisted she was underacheiving, and was capable of much more. She saw it as the teachers bullying her and acted up a bit as a result.

Re the practical, they did some exercise in PHSE recently about finding out how best they learn. She did say she came out as the type that learns more by doing than listening. Think it was 'kinetic learning' or something?

Whats the best way to go about getting her assessed by an SpLD specialist?

Yes, she sounds like she may have dyslexic-type or dyspraxic-type difficulties from what you have said - underachieving is a sign - how do her levels in maths / science compare?

I'm not really sure how you find a tutor, but this may help - it's an SpLD specialist teachers association and they do a list of tutors.

It may not be the answer, but it may give some pointers as to what to do to support her.

Maths 7c/b, Science 6a/7c

I would be surprised if she was dyslexic without it yet having been picked up. Especially as there were several dyslexic children at her junior school.

Dyspraxia sounds feasible as she is clumsy, but we have put much of that down to hypermobility.

I googled both earlier, and came across dysgraphia, which sounds more like her.

Gosh, I hate these labels.

DH says she is just lazy, obstinate and won't listen when it doesn't suit her.

No, not much of a gap there. What you say makes sense, or maybe your DH is right