Hi,any maths teachers out there?

[Villagepeople]

My DS is a year 10, studying the maths higher GCSE. He really struggles with maths,but I can't figure out why. He can spell and punctuate extremely well,which is usually a boys problem,but when it comes to maths-well I don't know where to begin.
I first noticed a problem in year 3 primary, and have mentioned it to every teacher since but they dismiss it. He just can't seem to retain maths facts. He is 15 but still can't divide/multiply etc..if he is shown how do to something,say,simultaneous equations,then he can do them. However if you leave it a day or two then ask him about one it's as if he's never seen one before-we have to start from scratch....same with division etc...I know he covered it in primary school (and many times since) but it's as if he's never seen it before ....HELP !!!! He really needs to get an A to follow his chosen career, but his last mock was a D ....... any ideas????

Could he be dyscalculic? Like dyslexic. Is there a big discrepancy between his maths and other subjects? Have the school expressed a concern?

It sounds as if he must be having a miserable time.

He's got a D on a "mock". Was this a modular exam the content of which has already been covered, or a terminal exam, half of the content of which will not have been covered by the middle of Year 10? If the latter, a D is unsurprising at this stage and is no predictor of a final grade. If the former then it's more of a concern.

Would you mind telling us what his chosen career path is? If he needs at least an A for his chosen career, that suggests good aptitude is required to accomplish the job. Whose idea is it that he is following the Higher course? (the Maths Dept or the boy's?)

If he's really struggling, he would probably be far better doing the foundation course. Having done the higher paper myself last year and being taught in a mixed ability class (adults), he'll be having a miserable time with some of the higher tier stuff. It may be worth you getting him some one on one tuition. If he needs an A for his chosen career, is this the right path for him?

Thanks all, it is the modular course,so he should have covered the subject matter. It's the school that have put him in for the higher exam,and they have not expressed a particular concern,except for him getting a D in the mock. His target is a B/C. I've noticed the same problem since he was about 7..he just doesn't retain maths facts,we have just had to go over the basics of multiplication and division again, and I know darn well we'll have to do it again next week!
He wants to apply to cunARD AS A DECK OFFICER CADET

You may find that there are considerable fluctuations in his modular grades. Some pupils just don't "get" algebra, others can't cope with trig, or shape and space questions.
It would be much easier for him to cope with content of the Foundation level course, on which it is possible to achieve a C grade. Nothing like as much memorisation for a start.

Best advice - speak to his teachers, ask whether there is any realistic chance of his achieving a B/C in their view. Look for similar careers with other employers which are not as demanding wrt this grade.

The maths involved in ship nav is pretty basic,he would only need an A purely because of the competition to get a cadetship! I think doing rthe foundation level would be a deathwish for him in that respect....do you think dyscalculia is a possibility then? Like I said I've been raising the issue with teachers for 7 years or so now, the problem is he's not doing "badly" enough to flag up a problem...

But if there is a clear discrepancy between his maths levels and other subjects, dyscalculia is a possibility. Is there a discrepancy, and if so, by how much?

How is it decided your DS is 'not doing 'badly' enough to flag up a problem'? Is it just because he is able to achieve a D? There are other's with worse maths than your son?

If so I would question this.

Yes that's pretty much it Minxy....he's never had any extra help with it,we have to go over the basics every week otherwise he forgets....yet he can rewire his own car, and remember what goes where so he's not daft, it's just the maths facts do not stay in his head! The school and my DH say I am projecting my own issues with maths onto him ( I too struggle to remember how to multiply n divide etc-I have to go on BBC bitesize to refresh my memory! Yet I passed GCE maths with a c,by dint of sheer hard work and a bit of guessing and went on to do A levels in Chem,bio and geog so am not "stupid")

If it isnt staying in his head, then he hasn't really learnt it. He is applying methods by wrote without understanding why. There are only so many step by step lists he can remember so each one pushes an old one out of his head.

There are a few different things he can try.

1. He needs to really understand the maths involved. He may benefit from some indivdual attention where someone can give him the structure to play with concepts until he has learnt them.
2. He needs to find a way of remembering that works for him. He may want to use lists or mind maps or diagrams. Get him to try different methods and see what works. At the end of each topic he needs to dfo a plan of what he has learnt on paper in one of the above formats and put it up where he will see it every day.
3. The research shows that there are key times to review what you have learnt so it goes into your long term memory. He needs to look again after 24 hours, a week and a month. This will take time but will help him.
4. He needs a different method of learning to what he is receiving. He may need a more active style or more understanding of why. Can you find out from him the style of his lessons. Are they varied and interesting or is it always text book work? If it always text book then this style doesn't work for him and you need to speak to his teacher and ask for something different.
5. He may need to put things to music, make up silly sentences, do card sorting activities etc to help him remember.

I hope this helps, it is not uncommon particuarly when taught in a very traditional way. Please ask more questions of you have them.
(Maths teacher emoticon)

P.s. This reminds he of Sisco on so you think you can dance. He is always telling the dancers to 'live' and what he means is the dance has to become part of them. Your son needs to 'live' with Maths so it is part of his soul. IF you watch the programme it is amazing the difference between someone dancing and 'living'. If I can spot it with no experience it must be clear.

Your son is repeating movements with no idea why and consequently it drops out of his head when he is asleep.

HTH

Hmm,but the schools opinion is that he's in 2nd top set,so there's no problem..and that's the brick wall I've run into all along.....and their solution is to drop him down to foundation level-but that's not tackling the problem...

I think you need to be tackling the problem with the ideas I wrote above.

When I was at school I was in top set for English but in my mock o level got a grade D so the school said I must sit CSE. Back then you could double enter (which you can't now) but I needed a C to get to college. I was worried I wouldn't get it so my parents found me a tutor. I got an A in O level.

Because it worked for me, that's what I will do if my children find themselves in the position you son is in. Keep him in the right set to access the Higher paper (as foundation is no good for him) and find a private tutor who can help him aim for his A.

Random idea: perhaps he is a kinetic learner. Appparently this involves walking in circles when learning things or speaking them out loud. Very bizarre but my children have learned about this is school and lots of mums are talking about it.

Otherwise, I agree with addictive. If you can't help him yourself then can you block in/afford a limited number of tutor lessons who can explore exactly what he's not understanding and find a way to help him do so.

I do think addictive is right. For example I can never remember the formula for how to work out profit, loss, original cost etc. But because I understand algebra, percentages and rearranging equations I don't need to, I can work it out. I just had to teach my child the same but backwards: she knew the formula but didn't "get" it so couldn't do hw. Now she understands it step by step she can remember and use it.

Just spent another 4 hours this evening going over simultaneous equations,surds,inequalities etc.......I asked why he hadn't finished a question off, and he said it was because he couldn't remember how to long divsion ..that's year 6 work!!!! So,we had to spend an hour going over division...again....!!!!

well one of our problems (at GCSE) is retention of primary school level work

they don't seem to "practise practise practise" until death any more

maybe I'm wrong but I've often thought this, they don't do a million sums because "it's boring"

and also don't forget they teach about ten different methods for division, multiplication, then ask the child to choose the one that works the best, that probably has something to do with it too

also they don't generally know their times tables early enough so when they are supposed to be understanding fractions and algebra, they're still caught up with "working out" the arithmetic - it must be hard to catch up

Totally agree with Gooseberry's comments.

Kids seem to be "taught" too much too soon. My DC have been doing Whizz and they have been introduced to so many topics that I was in high school before I was exposed to them. Whilst it is great that they are aware of so many different aspects of maths, at times I think it is too much. Whizz is following the national curriculum so they are not learning anything they shouldnt be.

I am currently encouraging revision and drills of the very early stages of maths to ensure they fully understand the basics before they move on any further. But I am also finding that because there is so much, what do you focus on first.
Obviously addition, subtraction, multiplication and division is a priority. But then there are fractions, decimals, place value, rounding, properties of numbers, calculating numbers in your head, writing down sums and working out on paper (long/short, columns, etc), handling data - charts, graphs, mean median mode, probability, measures - time, km, cm, kg, ltr, etc., mass/volume, capacities, conversions, shape and space - nets, perimeters, areas, solid, 2d, 3d, being able to relate and understand word problems etc., to name but a few.

The list is endless, and you need to juggle lots of play activities into your daily life to be able to practice all these topics so they remember forever. If they dont practice, they forget