secondary school appeal Please Help

[greenflyed]

I am a regular but have name changed to give you more information.

My DD2 has been offered a place at our 2nd school but we are appealling for our 1st place. She is currently 18th on the waitng list. She has epilepsy and asthma and is currently under investigation for ASD (high functioning aspergers) and dyspraxia. she is under CAMHS, OT and pediatrician. The school we are appealling has more knowledge and understanding of medical conditions than the offered school and has a brilliant SEN team that my DD has already met as transition days were already arranged and my DD was ready to go on, thankfully if the appeal is successful they will fit in some still for her.

They have a learning recovery base to help those with ASD with lunch time club to help with social issues. I have had experience with both schools with my older DD who has a medical problem and I know the offered school doesn't deal with medical problems very well.

My DD is seen as very clumsy and sensitive and the seconary school does v well with this.

The schools are in Rotherham and the LEAs arguement is purely that it is oversubscribed. I would be grateful for any help on how to challenge their case.

Say what you have said here and provide expert evidence from her consultants to back it up. That sounds like a strong case to me. The only thing I would change is your comment about the offered school. I would say that they don't have the same facilities and leave it at that. Be positive about the school you want rather than negative about the school you've got.

I take it your daughter doesn't have a statement. Is it likely she will get one? If she does, you can name the school you want her to go to and it is very difficult for the LA to turn you down.

Thank you. No she doesn't have a statement but is on school action plus. I think its unlikely she'll get a statement until after a proper diagnosis and definately not before the appeal.

I agree with PRH if you can provide proper statements from CAMHS, OT and paediatrician which state what the consultant believes that your daughter has and why the requested school would be of benefit, you would appear to have a much stronger case for admission than most of appealants will have. Never any guarantee but go to the appeal feeling confident that you have a good case.

As far as the LAs case is concerned, have you got info on the numbers in each year group? Are they over the published admission number as this suggests that they can take more without detrement. Also ask about the net capacity figures. There will be a quoted figure but that is the agree figure that is sensible for admissions. this can actually be anywhere between the actual measured figure and 90% of that figure. Obviously of the quoted figure has been quoted towards the bottom of the range it is begs the question why can't the school take extra pupils.

They take 300 per year for years 7-11 and then the sixth form which is around 320. The schools net capacity is 1740. At the minute there is 1852 on role and the projected number on roll for 2011/12 is 1873. The extra will be in the sixth form which is expanding gradually.

I have letters from the pead. and CAMHS and the referal letter for OT as we haven't actually had a appt. yet but go next fri. I also have things from school as she does jump ahead (help with coordination and balance) and her care plan and her IEP report.

How would I find out individual year numbers as I cant find these on the interent and how do I show they can cope with an extra child? TIA

I'm sure the posters who have responded above (who know what they are talking about) will be able to give you more advice, but you can ask the school directly, or the LEA for information on numbers of students in each year.

You can email them and ask, and they are obliged to tell you. In fact they will probably expect to answer a few questions from parents who go to appeal. You can ask anything that is reasonable for you to know to help your case.

When you have applied to appeal, the school will form a case against taking another pupil. It will be fairly standard stuff, so don't be put of by it, and it is likely to say that they are over their numbers and give more detail about it. You should recieve copies of the schools case in the post before the hearing, and when you get that you can go through it and look for things that might indicate the school can cope with more students.

Good Luck

As posters above have said, you need to focus not only on the medical conditions, but WHY she would be better off at your preferred school. I don't want to repeat what others have said, but get as much evidence as possible about her conditions, if possible from a consultant. Try and get any letter from a health professional to state that (YOUR SCHOOL) would be the best place for your child. Whilst the Appeal Panel can use their discretion, a letter from a health professional directly supporting your appeal helps - a lot.

Special Educational Needs normally forms part of a schools admission criteria, but the child obviously has to be statemented. You seem to be in the process of doing this, so make sure this forms a significant part of your appeal.

Next you need to focus on your evidence as to why the school is the best place for your child. Exactly what do they offer that others don't? Think about this, because the Panel may well ask.

I'd also double check the Admission Authorties figures, if you can. Net capacity vs number of children admitted etc. Was distance used as a tie-breaker? What is the distance to the school offered - would your child be safe making the journey with their difficulties?

I actually think you have a very strong case, it is more a case of how you present it.

Greenflyed,
With an admission number of 300, this will give 1500 pupils in years 7 -11 plus the 320 in the sixth form gives a total of 1820. If there is a total of 1852, that implies that either the 320 in the 6th form is a low figure or that there is 32 extra pupils in year 7-11.

It is interesting that the net capacity is quoted as 1740 because that implies that the school when the net capacity was set was thinking in terms of 300 per year group and 240 in the sixth form (which is actually quite low for a sixth form). I suspect that the admission number and the net capacity are actually a few years old and do not reflect reality. So I would be asking about what new capacity has been added over the time since the last official measurement of the net capacity. Obviously new facilities increases the capacity of the school and decreases the prejudice to not admit.

You can get the actual figures for year groups 7 - 11 from the school or the LA, they have to give you these figures as they are pertinent to your appeal.

Another approach is to try and find out how the pupils are taught. With 300 they will be in 10 classes for registration but how many classes are they being taught in for english and maths. It could easily be 12 or 14 in which case they will not have 30 in every class and there is another arguement that they are not using the available classrooms to their maximum efficiency.

A point to make is regarding the 6th form. If it is expanding then the school can hardly say that the school is full to busting if they have by implication added towards a 100 pupils in the sixth form. There is a reason and it is called funding, as the school gets more for each 6th form pupil than a year7 - 11. This is appropriate to the appeal providing that there is no specific 6th form facilities in which case it needs to be used with caution.

The figures would suggest that not too many parents succeed at appeal. Don't expect to win on the basis of being able to completely undermine the schools case not to admit to the extent that the panel agree this. What you are doing by attacking the schools case is weakening their arguements such that when it comes to the prejudice against your child on their personal circumstances the barrier it is not too high and your good reasons for admission outweigh the prejudice to the school.

Thank you for your help everyone.

admission the school is only 6 years old with only 2 extra PE theory classrooms added since, will the net capacity have changed? There is 12 form groups for each year but I will find out about other classes. The only specific sixth form facilities is a common room. They are short on classrooms and teach regularly /12/3 classes in the libarary and social areas because they are oversubscribed. Last year over 700 applied for 300 places. It is the best school in the area both pastorally and academically. I have been told 1-6 people are successful at appeal each year.

mynameisjess Distance was used as a tie breaker and we live 3.2 miles away and it is the 3rd closest school to use and the offered school is 3.4 miles away (4th closest). My DD wouldn't be able to travel to either school on her own, she cant cross a road safely on her own yet alone find her way there.

How can i prove that they can cope with an extra child?
Also i have asked the different medical people to write a supporting letter and they all have but only saying what she has not that the school will be better for her because they've said that they cant be seen to be supporting a specific school.

It is likely that the net capacity is that originally agreed when the school was built. Two extra classrooms is 60 extra pupils in theory but that is not likely to be enough to make a panel say that there is sufficent capacity to admit.
I guess from what you are saying that it will come down to the strength of your personal arguements for admission around your child's SEN

Thank you admission.

I now have the schools case and how do I show that they can cope with a extra child. They have 300 in year 7 and 8, 303 in year 9, 298 in year 10 and 299 in 11 and 360 in the sixth form. they say currently theres 1860 on roll and a capacity of 1788. The case says there is 12 forms but they are taught in 10 classes. this I am questionning as I thought it would be the other way around. I am going to talk to some current students. It says that if they take on any more students it will be detrimental to the school in the future which will effect the quality of teaching and learning. What questions should I be asking and how do I prove that they can take my child.

The forms/classes thing does sound like a mistake. If they are taught in 12 classes you can use the argument Admission suggested, i.e. that they are not using the available classrooms to maximum efficiency.

Without seeing the school's case in full, the obvious thing I would go for is the number in Y9. That is 3 over the admission number. It suggests that the sky won't fall in just because they admit one more pupil.

Before the appeal I would ask the LA for the actual measured capacity. This should be two figures, the lower figure being 90% of the higher figure. If the net capacity has been set at the lower end of this range it is possible that the maximum capacity could be almost 2000. It would certainly be worth bringing this to the panel's attention if the maximum capacity is well above the number currently on the roll.

You are unlikely to prove that they can take your child. The best you are likely to achieve is to weaken the case to refuse admission. I'm with Admission in that I believe this case will be won and lost on the strength of your arguments around your daughter's needs. Regarding that, if the medical experts won't name the school you want them to at least suggest what features need to be present in the school to help your daughter. You can then show that this school has these features adn the allocated school does not.

I would definitely also question the 6th form numbers because that is where the growth in school numbers is coming from.
It would be interesting to ask how many the school is prepared to accept into the 6th form before they think the 6th form is full, as at the moment there does not seem to be a maximum whereas in year 7 they are limiting the numbers. I suspect they will prevaricate about an actual number, so maybe the follow up question is, so if all 300 want to come in to the sixth form will you admit? No matter what the answer the retort then has to be, so how can one further pupil in year 7 actually make a difference?

Thank you both I dont know what i would have done without your help.

The form/class sizes isn't a mistake from talking to a few current students it seems form sizes are 24/25/26 and the classes in year 7 and 8 vary from 26-34 depending on the band and set with the higher sets having more students. Would this affect the appeal because my child will be in the higher band and is currently working at 5a across the board? What is the maximum class size for secondary schools? The class sizes then get gradually smaller as you go up the school, again can I use this to support my arguement?

I have asked for the actual measured capacity but I am waiting for a reply.
That is a very good question i will be asking about the sixth form admission.

There isn't a limit on class sizes in secondary school other than that imposed by the size of the classrooms. The fact that they are running classes of up to 34 in Y7/8 suggests that the classrooms are big enough for this many pupils, so the argument about not using them to maximum efficiency potentially still applies. I think that is more helpful to your case than the smaller class sizes in later years.

I wouldn't worry about the way they split the pupils into sets. They clearly have to make sure that none of the classes are too big, if necessary by adjusting the level of achievement needed to get into a particular set. That should not have any effect on your appeal.

Having the higher performing pupils in a larger class and the lower performing pupils in smaller sets is what most secondary schools do. It is not relevant to your appeal other than as PRH says in illustrating that the classroom sizes cannot be considered small. No panel would accept that as you child was higher performing it was Ok to admit because the class sizes are larger.
There is also no maximum class size for any class above year 2.
The class sizes will get smaller as you go up the school as students start their GCSE courses because they are making choices as to which subjects to take other than english and maths. Also the panel is considering year 7 not other years and so again it is not relevant to the appeal.