Is this useful homework?

[Bonsoir]

DSS2, in the equivalent of Year 8 (French collège 5ème) has been given a handwritten list of vocabulary by his teacher, drawn from a book his class are studying in French class (mother-tongue) and has been asked to find the definitions of 80 words in the dictionary (not internet) and to learn them by heart. He will be tested on them after the holidays.

Useful?

Sounds quite fun to me I'd be pleased if they got that homework. It is useful to know how to use a dictionary, they shouldn't become totally obsolete.

I don't see how they will know HOW he looks up the words though as presumably he could just memorise a definition from Wikipedia or whatever.

What are your thoughts on it? And DSS'?

Useful to practice looking words up in a dictionary IMO, but not 80 words and not learning the definitions by heart. I think a sensible homework would be looking up maybe 15 words, recording the definition and having a general idea of what they mean, being able to explain in their own words.

Personally I think it's fine to ask the children to memorise 80 definitions but not to ask them to look them all up in the bleeding dictionary.

A much more useful homework, to my mind, would be to select 5 of the words from the list and to ask the pupils to look up definitions for the short list from five sources and to write a short analysis and evaluation of the differences.

The other 75 words should be typed up with definitions given and the children should be asked to memorise them and to write meaningful sentences for five words chosen by them.

80 seems rather a lot to learn the definition off by heart. Presumably they are fairly easy words that have some relevance and the teacher just wants to know they have some idea of what the word means and what context they would use it in to help them enjoy and understand the book they are reading..?

My ds's teacher was thrilled he knew what dawdle meant and used it in an essay (I use it often when he needs to hurry up). So am assuming it's words like that rather than words like "oinochoe" which have no immediate relevance to every day life.

Also if they're reading a book with lots of unfamiliar words it can be useful to know what the words mean and be able to understand them while reading. I certainly didn't stop each time I didn't know a word to look up the meaning (as the teacher always advised) and thus found a lot of books boring or didn't understand them because I didn't understand the vocab.
So from that point oc view I would say yes it could be useful or them to look up the words before they find them in the book. Or to help them make sense if the book if they have already come accross the word and didn't understand it.

It's fine work, but 80 seems excessive. It would be even better to use the words in a sentence to show understanding.

No, gillybean, the words are not easy or common at all - neither DSS2 or I knew more than 10% of them.

Learning to use a dictionary rather than than the internet is a valuable skill - means they learn how things are alphabetised properly. In the internet all you do is type in the word.

Sounds like a basic skill, but IMO one that is very important.

Also, when you're looking for a word, it's impossible not to see other words, start reading them, so adds to the experience.

It's also an important discipline to learn to do things for yourself - internet takes too much of that away.

At year 8 I don't think this is too much.

And if they're difficult words, then why not test them? Can't really see the problem with it.

Sorry - should have added - testing on them means he's learnt them, not just cut and pasted from the internet. So also a means of checking he's done what he's been asked to do.

Since paper dictionaries will soon no longer exist, I wouldn't be insisting on looking up 80 words in one.

Or maybe I should be doing my washing by hand on a rock in a stream rather than using my washing machine?

Like I said, I like the test. Not the dictionary business.

Yes I do agree 80 is excessive especially as they are difficult.

I like the idea of doing a few a week rather than all at once.

But Bonsoir, I don't think this about being Luddite or rejecting new technology, it's about ensuring that he is learning another skill.

I use dictionary.com If you/he used something like that how would the teacher know? He will get just as much benefit looking a word up on there, and then writing down the relevant part from the definition, as a paper dictionary.

Or perhaps dividing up the list among the whole class - giving each a few different words. Then they could all discuss what they had learnt and copy down each other's definitions so they all ended up with the full list.

Then perhaps they could discuss example sentences as a class.

Having to stand up and explain the meaning of the word to the rest of the class would help them learn it much better, IMO.

WDYT?

He has the skill of looking words up in the dictionary in spades (did it right through primary and does it regularly in secondary) - no new skill is being acquired.

Yes, having to define a new word to the class is a good skill to acquire as well.

I get so fed up with the DCs repeating the same mechanical/rote skill over and over and not actually getting to any analysis/synthesis/evaluation...

As a language teacher at university I'd say very useful. Lack of dictionary skills is one of the main things holding students back ime. I just don't think you can have too much practice at that; students can have all the knowledge of dictionaries and still be badly held back in their studies because they simply aren't fast enough.

Can't think of anything that has been more useful to myself as a language learner than the fact that I used to spend every evening between the age of 8 and 18 working through books in various languages using a dictionary.

And where is the evidence that paper dictionaries will soon no longer exist? Having recently taken students through the relevant section in the university and demonstrated the different uses of the 20 odd different dictionaries (all in the same language) that are likely to be of use in this one particular course, I think it will be a while before all this information is available electronically.

I am a science teacher and I often get my students to pull out their dictionaries and decode scientific vocabulary using their linguistic skills from French and Spanish.

It is not something thatnshould be left behind in primary school. Learning a skill is only useful if you practise it.

cory - talk to a publisher of dictionaries - they all think that paper versions are as doomed as the Yellow Pages in book form.

Ah, see you didn't say in your OP that he's been getting so much similar homework for years! That changes things of course - not surprised you are bored and pissed off with it by now. As a one off HW I quite like it, but as you have finally revealed by stealth say it is a common task then that is indeed a bit rubbish.

My DS is in Y7 and I think this would be a decent homework for him.

As it is, he appears to have none.

But then he hasn't had to do this 100 times before....he's usually asked to look things up on t'internet.

Ah. French primary schools are technology-free zones, mostly (the DSSs' was) and it was all slates and dictionaries and cursive dictation.

DD (6.5) can look forward to years of the same...

Well, I'm going to agree with you Bonsoir. It seems an especially pointless homework if only 10% of the words are known to you, a reasonably educated adult. And an awful lot of definitions to learn off by heart, which probably won't be remembered long-term if the words are not in general usage. Of course, children should learn to be able to use a dictionary (not sure if it was something I was actually taught) but it seems a particultarly tedious way of acquiring vocabulary. Most of our language is acquired by listening or reading, which seems a far more productive and enjoyable use of time. A dictionary then comes into play if there is something we are not sure of and want to know because we are interested.

I wish ds's French/Flemish teachers would set a h/w like that, and that they would insist on the use of a dictionary. Ds is too used to using the internet, rather than a decent dictionary (a Robert for instance) to do his language homework and it drives me mad.

When I did French A level, I was joined at the hip to my dictionary (I still have it, 30 years on) and got a lot of use out of it. The kids today can't be bothered to spend the time - ds had a friend over today, they have Year 10 exams next week, and when I asked how his revision was going, and were his folders all organised, he told me that organising the folders would take away X box time!

I think with languages a bit more rote learning and memorising vocab would be a good thing, instead of 'Mum, what does this mean?' ..... look it up in the dictionary!