question about financial aid / scholarship at Eton & Westminster

[jmchoi]

Hi, All. I'm hoping that someone out there can shed some light on the following issue:

From the information on the Eton website and Westminster website, it seems pretty clear that for King's Scholars and Queen's Scholars, the guarantee of additional funds (beyond the 10% at Eton and 50% at Westminster that are automatically covered) to cover whatever is left over of the full annual costs, after the amount reasonably afforded by the family. For example, if the schools determine that a family can afford 5,000 pounds a year, the school will find the remaining 25,000 or so needed for the King's Scholar's (or Queen's Scholar's) education.

However, for students admitted to Eton and Westminster who do not win a scholarship, do people know if it is 50%, 75% or pretty much 100% assured that if a family can afford only part of the yearly cost of education at these schools, the schools have sufficient funds to cover the rest?

I ask because I know Eton, for instance, is trying to reach a point (as with the most richly-endowed universities and boarding schools in the U.S. (Harvard, Princeton, Exeter, Andover, etc.) where they can guarantee 100% of the demonstrated needs of admitted students, but I don't know if they are there yet.

The materials on the website are very vague on this point and they do not make a guarantee but I was curious to know if it is a practical reality even though not guaranteed publicly.

Thanks!
jc

I'm not sure if I understand correctly what you are asking but am I correct in thinking that your question is whether, if your son passes the entrance exam for these schools, they are guaranteed admittance regardless of the family's ability to pay the fees? If that is the case, I would say the answer is a resounding NO!

There is no such thing as a needs blind package here. You will find that these are disappearing in the US too, for example Exeter has stopped this in recent years as their endowment funds are getting low.

I don't know why people think that independent schools should somehow have unlimited funds. You could not get further from the truth.

Some of the bigger public schools claim to be "working towards" a needs blind model - Dulwich College is another. They're unlikely to ever get there, though, because there will always be a finite number of places. It's an aspiration, but nothing more at this stage.

I've read elsewhere that if the family is applying for assistance on basis of low income, the child needs to be scholarship level before they will be considered for help.

Eton are nowhere near being "needs blind". So, if you "fail" the scholarship but are offered a place there is no guarantee whatsoever of a bursary.

We had a meeting at DSs school with the Eton Admissions Tutor just before Christmas.

He mentioned that demand for what bursaries are available is incredibly high. I think that he wanted to make the point that if you were offered a place on the assumption that you were going to pay, and then needed to ask for a bursary because of changed circumstances then there was no chance.

I would recommend ringing them up, they are actually very approachable and helpful.

At westminster the scholarships and bursaries are totally separate. You need to phone and get details for your particular circumstances. You do not need to be scholarship material to get a bursary at westminster, but I do not know how much a full bursary covers.

Thanks to all posters for responses.

To respond to a couple of the questions:

["I'm not sure if I understand correctly what you are asking but am I correct in thinking that your question is whether, if your son passes the entrance exam for these schools, they are guaranteed admittance regardless of the family's ability to pay the fees? If that is the case, I would say the answer is a resounding NO!"]

No, that is not what I was asking. I wanted to understand more qualitatively how these schools (specifically Eton and Westminster) deal with the issue of financial aid to families in order to better make a decision about whether to spend the time necessary to prepare for these schools. I realize full well that we live in a world of imperfect information. Better decision-making comes with better information, hence my question. Counting on winning a scholarship (given the scarcity) seems a poor bet (even counting on admission (without scholarship) is probably a poor bet but obviously far less competitive).

["I don't know why people think that independent schools should somehow have unlimited funds. You could not get further from the truth."]

I don't have the expectation that independent schools should have unlimited funds or the belief that they do have unlimited funds. This is orthogonal to what I am trying to ascertain by my question. The schools have the funds that they do. Some have a lot, some have little. Some allocate a huge proportion for aid, others do not. You're correct that Exeter has backed away from their guarantee of full support but they still have a lot of funds available for financial aid and I know that a lot of underclass, lower-middle, middle and upper-middle class families receive a heck of a lot of aid for their kids to attend. I'm sure this is gratefully received by most of these families and none of them have a sense of entitlement that the school "owes" them this. Quite simply, preparing for British independent schools is different than preparing for U.S. prep schools (particularly if one is trying for the scholarships at Eton and Westminster) and knowing a bit in advance about how the schools deal with the question of financial aid will simply be one factor to help us to decide where to devote our energies. For me, there's no moral or normative component to the question. I will let others decide whether the schools should give a little aid or a lot of aid or no aid at all.

["So, if you "fail" the scholarship but are offered a place there is no guarantee whatsoever of a bursary."]

I do understand that there is no guarantee. The websites make that clear. I wanted to just see if anyone had more granular, first-hand information that gave a bit more color as to what the reality was between the two poles of: (a) we guarantee that all admitted students will be able to attend regardless of financial resources of the family (Princeton, Harvard, etc.) and (b) there is some possibility of aid but there are no guarantees or assurances.

Again, thanks to all and I will contact the school(s).

If they like the child they will cough up.

They vary a LOT IME. Even if they really like the boy, they may have rules about aid, and mostly the bursary runs money matters independently of the academicals at the centre.

The King's Scholarship papers at Eton are the hardest CE-level papers I've ever seen, so tough that I actually thought of recycling one for Oxford admissions.

Have you considered St Pauls Boys I believe they have now virtually moved towards a needs blind model their web site like the whole school ethos is not ambiguous! Although I apreciate it may be too late as you have to register your son very early; again this may have changed recently check their web site. From experience you can get large bursaries without getting a scolarship from schools like Eton and Westminster; we just have. Ring up, be honest and speak to the bursar say what it is you want if they choke and fall off their chair you will know its not a goer! Most bursars aren't stupid they dont want children working really hard for high CE marks/difficult entrance exams and then the child not taking up the place because of funding. Some will give you an indication a couple of years before of what they are prepared to offer. Good luck.

Do you have a thing for Paulines happygardening? I'd rather have a Wykemist!

We were offered a place at St Pauls and turned it down. But in relation to this subject they are worth looking at. I too prefer a Wykemist!

Isn't it Wykhamist? [sp not sure]. The School House there is for dedicated eccentrics, I'd say. The master in charge is lovely, though.

No full boarding at St Pauls and we are 120 miles away but yes I agree The School House is excellent and dedicated to eccentrics! I'm not sure about spelling having worked for the last two night spelling is starting to become rather eratic!

Surely Wykehamist?

It's Wykemist!!!

No, it's Wykehamist! Lol!

These schools are so complicated:

Westminster: Elizabethan
Magdalen College: Waynflete
Winc: Wykehamist
St P's: Pauline (blurgh)
Stowe: Stoic
Rugby: Rugger Buggers?

At least we know where and Etonian and Harrovian went to school.

It's pretty obvious where a Pauline went to school, too, don't you think? Paul's: Pauline. Geddit? Can't see why that's any more 'blurgh' than Etonian or Harrovian (think they're all terribly pretentious really), but I suspect from the tenor of your other posts you have a personal prejudice in favour of some schools and against others.

It's nothing against St P's but who would want to be called a girls name once leaving school, especially at a boys school!

It's pronounced Paul - Line, not Paul - Leeen, isn't it?

That's even worse, that sounds like how a cockney market trader would screech or someone out of Eastenders! lol

Well, Wayneflete isn't much better.....

William of Wayneflete taught at both Winchester and Eton (well, he was headmaster of the former and Provost of the latter). In the middle of the 15th century.

Oh come on, everyone knows that Eastenders would pronounce it PAUL LEEEN, not Paul Line!

Anyone with any sense won't use any of these ridiculous descriptions about themselves...

But I've never heard of William of Wayneflete and Wayne Fleet sounds like a cast member from East Enders.