will my son be disavantaged if he doesnt have the ebac?

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My son was looking forward to dropping mfl in yr 10 (although hes targeted to get a B)but now having been informed about the english bac he feels that he HAS to take french or spanish. I am concerned that he will not enjoy the subject and wonder how important the bac is to pupils. His school have informed us that most uni s will only take pupils with the bac, but I am realy confused as I didnt think that gcse s were taken into concideration at uni. I feel completely out of my depth with this matter as I dont seem to fully understand the whole further ed system ( never having had the oppotunity to go through it myself).
I hope some one can offer some advice, please.
He has to hand his options paperwork in tommorow!

Hang on a mo.2012 entrants will be current Y12s who were doing GCSEs when this EBAC hadn't even been dreamed up??

I understood this ebac is purely a means of measuring schools performance, to discourage schools 'grade chasing' by pushing students into soft courses which purport to be worth 4 GCSEs

Even UCL has a backdoor for those without MFL, which is to get up to standard in a MFL in their first year.

This is because as I was told by Oxford just after they had dropped their MFL requirement, that the University doesn't want to discriminate against very bright students who have just gone to schools which are awful at languages. Nevermind the dyslexic students, who have done very well to get the English qualification.

Thanks scaryteacher for that advice- but I seem to keep getting the message that a mfl or ebac will "probably" be required. I dont understand why its not made nice and clear so students can make the right choice for them.
My fear all along has been that the school will "encourage" students to do the e bac to boost results, but need a reason to push it hence - you "may" be required to have the ebac to get into uni.

And to respond to mummytime- I was told he would def. need the ebac to get into oxford- even reading up on the net so I was very interested to read what you said- especialy as my son is dyslexic and works very hard to get high grades ( and it was once reccomended that he didnt take a mfl because of his dyslexia)

Ignore the whole concept of Ebacc
think in terms of core academic subjects
then you cannot go far wrong

I'll have to ask again, but this was in a private conversation with a language Don at one of the most academic colleges. I was discussing with her why I hadn't applied as an undergraduate. Of course it does depend on courses. Science and Engineering might find a way to take a bright, enthusiastic etc. candidate but it would be different for Medicine, Law or Classics.

You don't think a language don might be wishful thnking, trying to boosy the importance of his subject?

ha,ha boost!

Agree with what other people have said -colleges/universities are still vague about what importance they will place on EBacc but more and more employers are choosing those with languages over those without, particularly in business and industry. People without some language skill will be at a disadvantage as jobs/uni places become more and more competitive. www.whystudylanguages.ac.uk/

DS has chosen his subjects for year 10 and he won't be doing ebacc. He will do music instead of history or geography. The school don't insist on a MFL either, but they do strongly advise anyone thinking of going to university to take french to GCSE. They do offer german, spanish and mandarin(sp?) too for those wanting two MFL.

In Scotland students are not required to take a MFL. However as most uni's now look at GCSE/Standard grades, to my mind it makes sense to keep your options open and go for the more academic subjects.

Thank god I am not an MFL teacher - some of those lessons will be absolute bedlam from next year.

I think if your child is thinking of a good uni and wants to keep her options open in terms of subject then the eBbacc is actually a good set of core subjects that will stand her in good stead both for A level preparation AND show that she has the skills to do sciences, arts/humanities and social sciences at uni

also for those that know what they want to do at uni and so thinking of dropping one that best to think of replacing it with another on the list. So 3 sciences rather than 2 + modern language rather than 2 sciences + non core subject.

How about if your year 9 child doesnt want to do History or geography? is that going to stop them getting an ebc and then what?

It does seem odd to include History and Geography but not, say, Music/Classics/Latin as Humanities. My O-levels wouldn't have got me the Ebacc (still got the RG university place though).

The reason no search results come up on the Russell Group website for EBacc is not because they are ignoring it but because it isn't actually called an EBacc!

If you search on the same site for English Baccalaureate, the search results will show you what different universities position on the EBacc is. I have only read the first one, from Oxford:

'Oxford will keep the development of the English Baccalaureate under review, assessing to see if it is a helpful predictor for success at Oxford, but will not, under any circumstances, require it of students who have chosen their GCSE mix before Oxford indicates any compulsory use in the admissions process.'

So there is nothing to worry about for pupils about to choose GCSE options, but that may or may not change for pupils who are younger.

My DS1 is in Year 12, and sat his GCSEs last year. He couldn't wait to give up MFL, so didn't take one at GCSE but did well in his exams and has EBacc in every other respect. I am furious that this way of assessing students which the government appeared to have dreamed up on a whim is actually being taken seriously by universities. I sincerely hope my DS will not be disadvantaged.

Many independent and grammar schools have been strongly encouraging/insisting that all pupils take an MFL and a humanity since the dawn of time.

A good spread shows an all round ability. So whilst RG universities don't set the EB as a requirement, it may be the deciding factor between two otherwise good candidates.

That said, if I thought a DC would get a low grade in MFL and a good grade in music/RS/history, I'd err on the side of the good grade. What an MFL shouldn't be replaced by is business studies/textiles/tourism. Not if your DC is aiming at a competitive course at a competitive university.

word factory - have you any idea what the GCSE Business Studies actually involves? If you did then I doubt you would have included it with the sweeping statement you have just made

I do think a language is important, but not necessarily as part of the ebacc package. AFAIK DD will not be getting the ebacc, even though she is doing German, French, RS, Latin and Resistant Materials (D&T)!

wordfactory, textiles is a D&T subject just as Res mats and electronics is so why should it be treated differently?

putthat - same with my son; he did history and geography but no language! But I am glad that he did a range of subjects including DT (also resistant materials - even though the cabinet he made didn't quite go in our house ) and sport (shock horror though it was a BTEC!) He is currently doing history, geography, law and PE at A Level (and yes, the BTEC sport did allow him onto the A Level PE which he does say is by far the hardest of the 4)

cricketballs it matters not a jot what's in the curiculum. The fact is that to win a place on a competitive course at an RG university, you will need to stick to the most rigorous academic subjects.

Taking other subjects limits options.

Personally, I don't think it's wise to limit options at 14 years old.

If you have a burning desire to learn about business, you would, imho, be far wiser to take good solid, well thought of quals and study it at tertiary level. Certainly no business studies degree requires GCSE in the subject. But many other degrees require you to have taken more academically challenging subjects.

The facts, whether we like them or not, are the facts.