Grammar Schools? - go by results?

[mykiddies]

Just wondering what people think about choosing grammar schools. Would you be more inclined to go with the school that had the best GCSE results. My DD has put down a girls grammar but there is another one that is v similar and I have looked up and their GCSE results seem that bit higher. Both these schools we went and looked at and my DD liked both. However the one we picked is closer to home and she knows quite a few girls there. The one with the better GCSE results is about 10 mins further away, the girls come from further afield so if she made friends they may come from miles away. DD scored v high score in her transfer test and I just want to send her to the school that she will do best in. I have noticed that in last year's intake the top band of girls applying to the school was far fewer than the other one but this may be because local girls go here. Please tell me that I am taking this all a bit too serious and looking into it too much. Surely wherever DD feels she will be happy should be enough. We are in NI btw.

Assuming that slightly better GCSE results make a better school overall (a big assumption, but leave that to one side for the moment .....).

Firstly I'd check to see if it's a one-off or a consistent pattern. Then (even assuming it's consistent) are the results generally higher, or maybe in a specific area? Little point getting excited about a few points difference in very specialised subjects unless your DD is already showing a special interest.

Finally my gut feeling is that as a bright girl she is likely to do best where she is happy - socially as well as academically. Only you know the answer to that one!

Don't look at the GCSE results in isolation, look at the value added figure - you want that to be over 1000 (it measures GCSE performance against entry level achievements in Y7)

But agree with pawsnclaws that GCSE results are not the only factor!

In GCSEs from last year 12.2% got A, 31.7 got A, 93.3% 5+ A-C, A*+A - 43.9%. Are these good results? The other school scored higher ranging from 3% to 12%.

Are the results higher though because in the other school in yr 8 they are taking in more girls in the higher band.

Intake last year took in 11 in band 1 compared to 44 in band 1 in the other school.

We have already made our choices but we still can change our mind. The other school is a bit posher i suppose as well because of where it is situated. My DD is a quiet girl who is quietly confident, always gives her best and quite focused on what she has to do. She might be happier in the school we have chosen because the ability is more mixed.

My problem is that her mark was quite high and we can choose any school for her to go to. If her mark was lower we just would have been wondering if she got enough to get into her chosen grammar. I have to say she also has high expectations for herself and likes to do well. I suppose if I change our decision and things don't work out or she isn't happy there I will blame myself for changing the school.

Sorry Ponders i'm not sure what you mean by you want that to be over 1000?

She sounds like she will do well at any school, so I would be inclined to let her go with her own first choice. You are really fortunate that you have the option of two very good schools; it does sound like neither would be a bad choice.

On the basis of that great educationalist Groucho Marx go, not with the results, but with the
Admissions criteria. If it is the sort of school that doesn't want your child that is the school to aim for.

Do you think AlfalfaMum. She is our eldest. Where she is concerned I want her to do well as of course I do my other dd but I don't think I will fuss so much over her sister as she is more confident, outgoing personality. I don't think dd has any preference over the 2 she seemed to leave it to us which one to put 1st but I think I will ask her again and see that she definitely wants this one over the other.

She seems clever enough to succeed in the GCSEs so I recommend that you pick the school with the friends as they will most likely support her in her life instead of picking a random school with people with no connections inside and she might not be able to visit them too much if they live too far away.

Am not sure if the majority of girls applying are from further afield. It could be equal with local girls. Certainly no-one from her primary has put it down. Most of her class have chosen the co-ed grammar nearest to where we live but we and dd decided on an all girls school. She seems to know a few girls already there that left her primary a few years ago. She is not fussed at all that her class are going elsewhere. I think from a social point of view she would be happier where we have chosen rather than going somewhere where she knows no-one though she would make friends easy.

\link{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/leaguetables/6975386/GCSE-league-tables-2010-how-to-read-the-tables.html\from Daily Telegraph report}

'For state schools, the tables also show the ?contextual value-added? score. This shows the progress pupils make between the age of 11 and 16. It also takes account of other factors, such as pupils speaking English as a second language, children with special needs and those eligible for free meals. Roughly speaking, schools with scores higher than 1000 are performing above average, below 1000 is considered below average'

Lucky you! It is either one grammar school here for West Berks & Reading or the local comp dross ('bog standard comp' as the partner of Fiona Miller, partner of the delightful Alistair Campbell describes it).

mykiddies: My DD has put down a girls grammar but there is another one that is v similar and I have looked up and their GCSE results seem that bit higher.

Points to consider:

? On the face of it, both schools may look ?v similar?. But are they really?
? Both schools may have (say) 93% GCSE A-C passes. But if School A?s remaining subjects are mainly ?soft? subjects compared to School B?s which include the foreign languages and other traditional academic subjects, then I would say School B is a better school.
? One school may have a cohort of (say) 100 pupils as opposed to the other school which have (say) 160 pupils. And if both schools achieve the same percentage passes in the GCSE exams [v similar (?)], then I would say the bigger school is a better school.
? Things change over the years. The better school today may be overtaken in 5 years time (when your DD sits the GCSE?s) by the other school.

Then there are the personal aspects:
? I prefer a same gender school.
? A school 10 mins further away means you may lose up to half-an-hour return trip each day i.e. up to 3 hours each week (traffic jams, etc.) ? time better spent in doing homework, etc.
? Obviously the school your child feels happier should tip the balance.

Good luck in your decision.

Just to say: "Value added score" can work against some very good schools. Ie. schools where the children come in with high attainment scores and leave with "stuff" exceeding the marked criteria.

eg. Primaries where children leave having reached all the SAT level things that are marked, but having experienced an enriched curriculum that puts them well beyond that, as well as giving lots of extras. That school won't score terribly well with "Value added" but clearly, that's a school that really is giving value added.

Same with secondaries.

So be aware of that.

In this instance, there is probably going to be very little between the grammars, realistically, so it's worth going on "feel" - which it sounds as though you've done.

Does your dd have a special interest? does one of the schools cater better to that?

Academically, I think they'll be much of a muchness.

That should say : Primaries where children are assessed with high achievement scores at the first instance, and leave with scores that are in excess of the assessed criteria. It will look as though the school hasn't added much "value" but, in fact, they may well do.

Value added scores are a bit blunt. I think it's to try and highlight a. schools with a difficult intake but fantastic teaching b. schools with a very settled, well-supported-at-home intake but are, actually, not not so great at actual education.

It's unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely) that a grammar is going to fall into either of those categories.

My daughter doesn't really have a feel for any specific subjects - she is a good all rounder I would say. Shows interest in history, geography, ICT, art and takes in facts well. Likes participating in sport/music. Do you think it would be a good idea to phone and speak to either of these schools maybe 1st choice why are your GCSE results lower than my 2nd choice (is that a bit cheeky)is it to do with intake? I don't know. I am afraid that if we change our mind and she starts and isn't happy then it will be my fault.