Long sorry - Would/did you give your DCs extra work at home, if their school was doing bugger all?

[FreudianSlippery]

We are in a bit of a quandary. DH has two DDs in yr8 and we are really not happy with their school. But exW putting foot down and not letting them move.

Long story short is they are not learning anything. Work is never marked properly, just gets ticked, even if it's all wrong. Maths is all done online (it's a good site but they don't get teacher feedback or get practise at showing working out). They are not allowed to bring textbooks home for any subject. Worst is that many fellow pupils are incredibly disruptive to lessons. I could go on for hours :(

So. Bearing in mind they are stuck there so moving/HEing not an option, WWYD?

I know in primary it's (according to other threads) often better to let things happen at their own pace but it's more important now. DH's DS has gone through that school and got nothing to show for it despite being very clever. Obviously this has a lot to do with the home environment - but that's a whole other thread. They get no support with school at all from exW, so it's down to us. Which is fine in principle, but how the heck do you do it when you're the NRP?

I've got loads of resources and ideas, and between us we are confident in all subjects, but it's hard to fit in. Obviously first they do their actual (mostly pointless) HW and then they're tired. They are so turned off education that they hate it all, it is so sad. One is dyslexic which obviously adds to the difficulty.

WTF do we do. I don't want to see them fail. Help :(

Have you addressed your concerns with the school? It sounds from your post as if there are real issues with the management there. Do other parents have the same experience?

I'd take it to the school first to find out what exactly is going on. Books not marked etc is a disciplinary for a teacher so it shouldn't be happening. Work marked right when it's wrong is outrageous.

I wouldn't advise that you supplement their learning yourselves (unless you are teachers and know the syllabus, otherwise you could be teaching them stuff which is out of date or not relevant to what they are doing). Private tuition is a way forward. You don't need to tell the school this either. Not too sure what the going rate is these days. It can be pricy. Avoid agencies with a flashy advert - they are more expensive. Have a look for adverts in local papers or ask around.

Don't spend too much money on textbooks either. A lot of them look good but aren't much use.

You should also push for a statement of special educational needs for your dyslexic child. Once a statement is in place the school can get funding for extra support. If a statement is already in place, you get an annual review which all adults with parental responsibility have to be invited to attend. In other words, if there is already a statement, then extra support should be happening.

To be honest, your best move is another school but if you've ruled out that option it is difficult.

And yes, I do give my DS work at home - he's doing A levels and one teacher in particular is rubbish. Fortunately it's in the subject I taught (28 years - you get less for murder these days) and now examine. He didn't like it at first, but when he realised just how much he wasn't being taught, and started getting higher marks and praise, he changed his mind.

Good Luck

I think if it was me in your situation at this point I wouldn't explicitly supplement school work ie study guides etc but would go for a more subtle approach and encourage reading, discussion and try and get back an enthusiasm for learning. Sorry I know nothing about Dyslexia and how that impacts on things. Is there anything that they are into (even if its something dreadfully teenage!) that you could encourage a scrapbook on or some reading, do you watch films or television that you could talk about, can you take them anywhere that might spark some interest.

I sympathise with you but in reality I can't see the way forward. You also need to be careful that you don't antagonise the DSDs by pushing them. I have set extra homework for my own two when they were in a failing school but they were primary age and under my watchful eye all the time. We had the "study hour" every day in the holidays and at weekends. It worked. They both got level 5s in SATS Key Stage 2 while their school was in special measures. But you are in a different ballgame and need to tread carefully. What about a tutor? There are some excellent ones around.

One word. Tutors.

If you aren't able to move them you need to get additional help.

Absolutely.

I agree with Hullygully and Abr1de tutors are the answer. First get the DSDs on side - it might be better to see the tutor while they are with you in the circs. Good tutors can be found in the local paper, newsagents, parish or community newsletter. Agencies are OK but charge more.
Going back to the original problem, why not tackle the school direct? Would it do any harm?

Bad idea to supplement with tutoring, etc in my view. Just think what fresh hell it will create for the DDs. Especially if their mother gets in on this act as well. It will be like 24 hr work as punishment. You are not paying your taxes to put up with this.

In your shoes, I'd make sure an agreement is struck with their mum first. Gather your evidence on how rubbish the school is (am appalled at the unmarked/wrongly marked work.)

Express your concerns to the school IN WRITING, with photocopied evidence attached (circulate copies to their head of year, the head and possibly the head of governors). Ask to have the girls moved within the school into classes where the teachers actually give a sh*t. (It may take quite some time for the school to make changes otherwise, and you don't necessarily have that luxury.) Every school has some teachers better than others, and I shudder to think this is the best they have to offer. If there are some very challenging pupils there, it may be creating enormous stress for the teachers, which may account for why your girls are getting short changed. What are the school doing about behaviour management?

However, I really do think a different school is the best option by far. Surely, surely their mother cannot be in disagreement with you when she considers the alternatives.

And I think these girls are very, very lucky to have such a supportive stepmother!

Thanks for the replies.

I hadn't really thought of tutors. Is it likely to be affordable? Bearing in mind their mum is on income support (and about to be made redundant) and DH is on statutory sick pay for at least another month.

What kind of stuff would they do? I went to a tutor and had lots of HW - I can guarantee their mum wouldn't get them to do that. I thought about investing in programmes like toe by toe for dyslexia but the daily work wouldn't happen. There's a lot of issues there, basically unless they get a detention she takes no interest in their day to day schooling. She's very critical of them when they don't get good grades though, go figure. :(

Complaining to the school... This is where it gets weird. As a general rule I do sometimes tell DH off (privately!) for criticising the teachers etc... It's not the girls' fault and I don't want them to feel bad. But when things have gone wrong - e.g. They refused DSD a statement because her yr6 SATs were too good - um, maybe that's because due to her dyslexia she had a reader/scribe!!! - DH has offered to help by approaching the school and exW gets upset, saying she will do it herself, but she doesn't. The girls don't want to rock the boat, it's like they don't feel they deserve the extra help. It's bizarre and very hurtful as of course DH wants to stand up for his DDs.

I do understand that it'd be bad to pile on too much extra work. They are so tired all the time. They like games so sometimes we do quizzes etc based on what they're learning. They take them home and ask their mum to do it with them and it doesn't happen, so they get demotivated.

Sorry I know I seem ungrateful for all this advice, by picking holes in it, I don't mean to sound like that at all. Just feel like we are fighting a losing battle :(

We supplement at home because their are gaps in our childrens basic knowledge but we use an online tutoring programme which is teaching the current methods of numeracy so I dont have to worry about interfering and teaching them wrong.

However, if they are switched off, and dyslexia is a problem, Im not sure than online tutoring would benefit, because they have to want to do it. (I found it easier using the computer because none of my DC will look at workbooks whereas they dont consider computer maths as education.

What online maths do your kids do? Our kids books dont get marked either - which is another reason I started to do extra at home because they weren't aware when they had done anything wrong, so problems escalated.

Its good that you are taking an interest.

When you go in to complain to the school, it might be worth knowing that a couple of things you mention are common even in very good schools with excellent GCSE results, so concentrate on the things that are definitely not good:

no textbooks taken at home is pretty well standard- but a good teacher might encourage purchase of a revision guide by the parents

online maths also very common- but should naturally be supplemented by plenty of real teaching- which seems to be where your school falls down

The lack of marking seems a serious concern. These are children who will be choosing their options next year: they need to know where they're at. In dd's school all work is marked and when you turn up for parents' evening the teacher knows exactly where your child is at and what their strenghts and weaknesses are. What is the feedback like at this school? Do you have regular (2/3 times yearly) opportunities to meet with the teachers?

Freudian It sounds as if you cannot spare the money for tutors. Anyway, to get your money's worth best out of any private tutor you need commitment from the child and parent but it sounds as if that would not happen in this case.
My strategy would be:
Tackle the school by going with your DH and seeing the Head of Year or Deputy Head. Take those unmarked books with you and show him proof they are not being marked.
Ask for more extra support for your DSDs and don't give up until you are listened to.

Why does exW get the casting vote?

Think 20 years ahead and the DSD are asking "Why didn't you do more to support us? You were the adults, we were only helpless pawns." What will you answer be?

(sorry: low blow )

You're so right. And from a slightly selfish point of you, I AM terrified that they'll think we didn't try. But exW has them totally under her thumb. Really dysfunctional.

We've been treading water for a while, thinking they needed time to settle in. They are both happy there mostly, apart from the lack of discipline of other students.

I'd like to have a proper group chat with them to see what their feelings are. I think they've got used to not doing anything and feeling like schoolwork doesn't matter, so it'll be interesting to see what they say.

Thank you for all the replies it's given us lots to think about :)

Point of you? Point of VIEW obviously.

My eldest is doing A levels and struggling with one of them. If I had my chance again I would be more insistent that they read and write. As in read books - any book but just get used to reading for a long time and something that is just a bit harder than they're used to. Likewise writing. Schools seem to be all about worksheets and one word answers which is little help when they need to start writing fuller answers or essays. Perhaps if they're at primary school encourage them to write stories based on the books they've read?!

"Schools seem to be all about worksheets and one word answers which is little help when they need to start writing fuller answers or essays."

Couldnt agree more. They are in yr8 FFS and still get worksheets for most subjects.

In fact they just had to write their Very First Essay. Under exam conditions. And inevitably got disappointing grades because they have NO secondary school experience (ie since yr6 SATs) of writing more than a few words at a time. The real kick in the teeth was, it was about a subject which she loves and knows more than her peers about - but she had no idea how to put her knowledge into an essay.

I think you should pick a couple of subjects first (Maths and English?) and ask questions. What is the marking policy for each department? How often, what kind of comments etc. If they are not keeping to that, point it out. I would expect a formative comment on independently completed work. Work that is gone over in class I would expect the students to self-correct and I would acknowledge with a tick.

How often are there formal assessments that are sent home to parents? We do them half termly and it enables us, and parents, to monitor progress and give and receive feedback about attitude and behaviour.