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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

what if no school on national allocation day?

26 replies

rinol · 21/01/2011 06:33

could someone pls tell me what the procedure is if you don't get any of the schools on your caf form?How soon can you apply to other schools?Can you apply in other boroughs?So worried my dd won't have a school come sept....

OP posts:
mummytime · 21/01/2011 09:43

You should be offered a school (even if it wasn't on your form). I know this is not always the case in London, but I would assume the LA would at least tell you what to do next. You can send your child to any school anywhere that will take them, you just have to get them there. I think most children have a place, the only ones who don't are those whose parents have rejected a place (often holding out for an extremely popular school).

Don't panic now, but if the worst happens come back when you get the letter. :)

mummytime · 21/01/2011 09:44

You should be offered a school (even if it wasn't on your form). I know this is not always the case in London, but I would assume the LA would at least tell you what to do next. You can send your child to any school anywhere that will take them, you just have to get them there. I think most children have a place, the only ones who don't are those whose parents have rejected a place (often holding out for an extremely popular school).

Don't panic now, but if the worst happens come back when you get the letter. :)

PixieOnaLeaf · 21/01/2011 10:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mummytime · 21/01/2011 11:27

Lots of people do win appeals (but you need the right grounds), there can also be a lot of movement on waiting lists, does depend home many children are really going private.

Decorhate · 21/01/2011 11:32

You should be afford a place at the nearest school that still has places. In our area that generally means the schools that are undersubscribed & no-one wants...and can be in a different town but same county council. Not sure how that works in London...

Madsometimes · 21/01/2011 12:26

You will be offered a school if you are London too, probably not a school that you want...

LondonMother · 21/01/2011 13:12

In our borough I think the letter with the result of your applications would tell you which schools still have vacancies and for which bands of ability, where relevant. It then goes through the dates for open days and how to apply to one of those schools.

You also get the details of how to appeal to the schools that didn't offer you a place and how to get on the waiting list (two different processes).

I know of one family in our area that decided once they had their offer that they would have preferred another school. They rang the LEA and were offered a place there, presumably because somebody else had turned a place down.

Too late for anyone who's in the system now, but it really is important when you're filling that form in in the autumn to try to think how you will feel in March if you have no offers at all. If you don't want to take that risk you have to put at least one school on your form where you know you will be offered a place and which you could live with. No good putting down six schools where the chance of a place is slim at best.

Talkinpeace · 21/01/2011 13:38

THe more I read of this board the more I think
bring back ILEA
SO much money is being wasted in the London education budget duplicating and appealing and assessing that would be much better spent on schooling.
ILEA simplified the whole thing, but I bet Gove is not brave enough to bring it back.

prh47bridge · 21/01/2011 17:18

If you don't get a place at any of the schools you listed your child should be allocated a place somewhere else, usually the nearest school with places available. The LA has to find a place for your child.

nlondondad · 21/01/2011 17:45

Bring back ILEA?

Its a thought, but how about proper devolution for London as Scotland has? With a London Minister for ed?

Talkinpeace · 21/01/2011 18:22

Ministers are a waste of space.
Just come with more managers and bureaucracy.

A small part of me wonders why secondary places at all state funded schools (academies, the blerdy lot) could not be run on a computer system like UCAS

THe LA system is OK if the areas are large
eg I do not tend to leave Hampshire/Southampton during the week but in London where the boroughs are so tiny it is insane that there is not a combined application system
and therefore lots of "directors" and "deputy directors" and "assistant directors" and "marketing officers" and "compliance officers"
costing a fortune out of the budget that should go on books and teachers.

HSMM · 21/01/2011 23:06

We got offered a school which wasn't on our list, but with the offer came details of how to appeal, etc. We appealed for 2 of the other schools on our list and got into our 3rd choice school at appeal in the July before DD was due to start in September. It was a bit stressful, but I was prepared to Home Educate if necessary.

rinol · 22/01/2011 06:50

Thankyou all for the feedback....will wait with fingers crossed...

OP posts:
LondonMother · 22/01/2011 11:05

Talkinpeace, there is a combined admissions system for the whole of England! It still needs a lot of local input, though, checking the addresses and so on.

The Admissions team in our borough are there to administer the start and end points of the system, ie give the forms and info to parents, advise them on the admissions criteria, work out home to school distance for them for each school, send them their letters/emails with the results of the application, sort out in-year admissions, manage waiting lists and appeals from the LEA side. Busy job.

The other LEA staff (this is based on what I remember from my governor days long ago) are working on monitoring school standards, supporting heads, setting targets, sorting out SEN provision, planning for school places, getting funding for school building projects, setting budgets, etc etc. It's complicated stuff and it was notable that when schools had the chance to opt out from the LEA in the 90s only one school out of about 90 in our borough did so. The rest concluded that the amount of work that would then fall on school staff made it uneconomic.

prh47bridge · 22/01/2011 14:10

I think LondonMother is referring to the Pan London School Admissions Scheme. As its name implies it runs across London, NOT the whole of England. It involves all 33 London boroughs plus Surrey County Council. As such it is much broader than ILEA used to be - that only covered 12 boroughs in central London.

LondonMother · 22/01/2011 14:23

It's all a long time since we did this, PRH, but I thought the co-ordinated admissions scheme covered the whole country. What if you live on the edge of London and want to apply to a school in Essex/Kent/Surrey? Do you get your six London choices and another five for the county?

Talkinpeace · 22/01/2011 15:24

London - I live on the boundary of two LEAs - I got one form from the one I live in but filled it with the name of schools in the other!

prh - in that case, why are there threads about parents having loads of forms to fill in?

LondonMother · 22/01/2011 16:29

Lots of VA schools and academies have supplementary forms to be completed with all the stuff they want to know in addition to the basics on the secondary transfer form. This is so that they can give priority to parents who take size 9 shoes and prefer marzipan to chocolate, or whatever other weird criteria they're trying out this year.

prh47bridge · 22/01/2011 18:12

To try and explain....

There is no single co-ordinated admissions scheme for the whole country. Each LA has to have its own co-ordinated admissions scheme. However, one of the requirements of these schemes is that parents always apply to their home LA even if the school they want is maintained by a different LA. So if I live in, say, Barnet and want to apply to schools in both Barnet and Hertfordshire I just fill in the form for Barnet.

LondonMother is correct about the reasons some parents have to fill in many forms.

LondonMother · 22/01/2011 18:21

Oh, that makes sense. I had visions of a giant computer covering the whole country! But the effect is similar, isn't it?

In your hypothetical example, the Barnet form has room for five or six choices. You fill them in and pass the form to Barnet LEA. Barnet LEA identifies the admissions authorities for all the schools you've applied for (or maybe the LEAs) and sends your details on. In due course the AAs or LEAs send the decisions back, and Barnet looks to see which is the highest ranked school, if any, that can make your child an offer. If you have one, they then let all the other schools know that your application should be removed from their list and they re-jig their lists. As that process happens over and over again, eventually almost everybody has an offer from one of their schools. It's Barnet's responsibility to make sure that every family gets either one offer or none, and if they get none, they get details of schools in Barnet with places available, and info about how to contact the adjacent LEAs.

Is that right?

prh47bridge · 22/01/2011 18:45

Yes, that's pretty much right. The only point on which I would disagree is about what happens if there are no places available at the schools for which the family applied. The regulations require the LA to offer a place at another school if one is available. Simply sending a list of schools with places available is a breach of the regulations. If that is what your LA does someone should point them at paragraph 3.15(g) of the Admissions Code.

LondonMother · 23/01/2011 14:33

Sorry, PH, I don't know what our LEA does as we weren't in that position, but I think they probably do what you say they should. I do seem to recall people in the playground comparing notes over which schools they'd been allocated. It was all a long time ago for us - my son's in year 12 now.

Needmoresleep · 23/01/2011 19:37

We are in London and four years back did not get offered a place for our son. I had assumed that it was because he was already at an Indi and we have only tried for grammars. We had always known that there is a real problem with state places in our area, and so had expected to have to use within the independent sector.

We got a call in about May saying they might have a place in a school in an other borough some distance away. I might have pushed my right to a place except I heard that a couple of kids at the local state primary were also without places and understand the position only got resolved at the end of the summer term.

People I know phoned around schools in other boroughs, which seemed to work better than simply relying on the local education authority. I know it happened the following year as a friend's son was affected.

Two years later the borough seems to have got a bit smarter, or maybe approach had changed. My daughter was not offered the nearest, though out of borough and high performing school, but instead was allocated one some distance and three buses away, with a dodgy reputation. I asked if we could look around, but this seemed to be a unique request and we were told that she would have to wait until June when all new pupils would be invited. They managed however to send the contract asking my daughter to sign saying she would not bring knives, drugs etc to school.

I do hope things have improved. People were really sick with worry, and the children affected were very upset.

fedupdomesticgoddess · 17/03/2011 16:40

We are in the position of having not received an offer from any of the schools on our list. The schools we chose were those closest to where we live. We didn't include any faith schools as we are not church-goers (in any case there is only one, very over subscribed catholic school close by) The other schools are all places where, in the past, kids from our primary school have transferred in significant numbers. My DC is in the top set, no special needs, 100 attendance & punctuality and keen to learn. Some of his friends are in a similar position. I have today just learned that we are 208 on the list of our closest community school which is a 10min cycle ride from home. The school we were offered is the school from hell and even the head teacher admitted that it would not really suit my son as he is already working well above the level of the current yr9s! I really don't know what to do. Any suggestions, other than move house which is sadly not an option at the moment.

innertiger · 17/03/2011 17:47

Fed up - can you tell me what the criteria are for the nearest community school? Do you have link schools at all in your borough?