Would your yr8 be able to do this maths HW?

[FreudianSlipIntoMyLaptop]

My DSD (12) had the following questions: (I'm paraphrasing btw as I don't have it with me)

1. Teacher needs the following equipment for her lesson: 1 book per pupil plus 1 spare. 3 worksheets per pupil. 2 rulers per pupil plus 7 spare.

(a) Write a formula for each object using p for the number of pupils. B=___ R=___ w=___ (b) work out how many of each item is needed if there are 12 pupils.

1. (picture of triangle) an equilateral triangle has perimeter p. We work out the length of one side by using s=p/3.

(a) If the perimeter is 6cm how long is one side? (b) rearrange the formula to make p the subject: p=___

1. (picture of regular hexagon) this hexagon has side length s.

(a) Write a formula for finding the perimeter p=___ (b) if one side is 6cms how long is the perimeter?

...

DSD really struggled with it. She generally does ok at maths but I think algebra confuses her (she's dyslexic too). I would have thought that an average student could do that in yr7 but I'm willing to be corrected - I was in a very pushy selective school and thanks to my dad's genes found maths easy.

I'm really worried about DSD struggling :( she's finally found her niche at secondary after hating junior school - she's quite a sciency person and enjoys it but if she falls behind in maths again it'll really knock her confidence - last term she was top of the class working at level 8 on indices stuff which was a doddle for her.

Any advice/thoughts please?

My ds is in Y8, I'll print it out and show him, see what he thinks. He is average at maths. Not brilliant but not too bad.

I'll report back later on, he gets home about 4pm.

Dd1 in year 7 would do this, but she is good at maths and at a v academic school. I can imaginenit'd be hard if she's dyslexic.

I suspect its the sheer wordiness of the questions that is foxing her rather than it being algebra per se.

Perhaps you could see if you write down the same tasks more symbolically without all the verbage if that helps? I don't mean you should do this all the time, just to see if that's the issue.

I would agree with Grimma that its the way the question is worded that is making it more difficult than it should be - DS is good at maths but still has the odd area that he doesn't "get" straightaway,it usually just needs explaining in a different way.

I would say ds could do most of it except 2b for which he may need prompting, depending how it is worded - he'll probably say different though!

That's a very good point about the wordiness. I suspect the abundance of letters doesn't help :(

If I tell you the sorts mistakes she was making it may help:

1a. Instead of w=3p she put w=p+3
2b. Instead of p=3s she put p=s/3 (ie jus swapping p and s)

I have a feeling if she did less wordy versions she would do better - once she learns a process she's ok. But I'm a little worried she doesn't understand the actual concepts IYSWIM? Like the link between x and /

Any ideas on how to help?

DD is in Y7 and could do this, but as others have said, it doesn't seem to be presented very clearly.

About the mistakes, does she understand that 3p is the same as 3 x p?

You could try explaining it by using actual numbers - so 2 pupils need 2x 3worksheets, 3 pupils need 3 x 3 worksheets etc and so showing that even though the number of pupils change its always x3. When she has that concept you can show how using p to represent the number of pupils means the formula will be p x 3.

ds (yr 6) was doing this kind of thing last night, I found talking about it helped, so he understood what was actually being asked of him.

As a child I would haved cried at these questions, now I love them

Yes it sounds like she doesn't understand the concepts and therefore she has got no chance if they are all dressed up in words. Sounds like she is just having a stab at it. I think she needs to consolidate the basics first, before words are introduced.

Thanks all. Any ideas on how to do said basics? I did have a vague thought about using magnetic letters on a whiteboard... Obviously she's tired after school and other homework (and we only see her around once a week) so I don't want to make it too arduous.

Think those would be really common mistakes, certainly ds has made similar.

I think webwiz's way is a great way of explaining it. I think it is really multiplication and division and then extending that to algebra.

worksheets per pupil. If there was one pupil, how many worksheets? 2 pupils how many worksheets? etc. then p pupils how many worksheets?

s=p/3
p is being divided by 3. To get p on its own, do the inverse (or opposite) to both sides of the equation i.e. multiply both sides by 3, so get
3s = p

i think a lot of maths questions are written badly and are confusing. I have been looking at test papers and got the answers wrong, and then looked at the answers and thought "oh that's what I was supposed to do". But it hadnt made sense.

There are a lot of children who are good at maths but fail tests because they havent had exposure through the year to test style questions.

To answer OP question these are Y8 quesitons

What does her teacher say?

Her teacher? Don't know. All homework is done online so no feedback or comments on working out.

My year 7 child could do this fairly easily. She'd have to think about it, but would get there after a few minutes.

I can't do it

Re arranging equations is hard so s=p/3 to p=3s is very tricky, lots of kids struggle with this. It can help if you display the formula as a triangle with p at the top and s and 3 at the bottom, you can also do this with times table facts to help her get used to them.

I would also suggest you help her go over questions like this with a highlighter to help her see the key words. Discuss what they are asking, do worked examples, you can always take maths further independent of the computer program. Is she using my maths? If so make sure she gives accurate feedback on how hard she found the homework.

Yes, it's mymaths. It isn't a bad site really - but it does annoy me that they never ever get maths HW on paper. She has no idea how to show working out etc, how is she supposed to cope in an exam?

Love the triangle idea, I remember using that to memorise formulae for physics etc!

yes, too many words.

I bought a key stage 3 maths revision book today, so at least I know their syllabus better. I'm not sure how to use it with my DSDs - it's got loads of exercises, but I don't really want to make them sit down and plough through it on top of all their HW! It'd be slightly different if they were my own children, or they lived with us. I don't want them to dread coming here because they have to do Extra Work - they've got used to their mum just letting them struggle alone get on with it :(

Any genius ideas?

Mymaths has 'revision' lessons as well as set homework - it might be worth going through those with her first before she does the homework. DS always cuts straight to the chase but inevitably, if he works through the revision bits first, he will find out how to think through the bits where he is stuck...

PS I think my DS could do this (Y7) but it is pretty hard if you don't 'get' algebra'. I think I'd be tempted to find real things she can work it out with - pencils, books and paper for the first one...

Then you could get her to measure and cut out lengths of paper and label them all 's' for the second and third ones, maybe sticking them onto another sheet of paper making a triangle and hexagon. Then she can visually 'count up' the number of 's(ides)'s