The English Baccalaureate has really affected the League tables...

[MrsTweedy]

Is anyone else finding this fascinating? I am really surprised at how few pupils at well-regarded schools in my area have done what I would consider core subjects eg
Richmond Upon Thames

The Ebacc is basically English, Maths, a science, a language & history or geography with A*-C passes. These were compulsory in my day (okay I am ancient and did O Levels). It just shows how the curriculum has changed and how schools have been slanting it recently to improve their league standings on the previous benchmark.

I suppose it depends on which criteria you use to rate them ie either the EBacc or just 5 A-C GCSEs at the end of the day but it is certainly a surprising result in some cases.

i'm with longfingernails
ict not worth the paper it's written on

If you were going to employ a school leaver are to manage computer systems would you seriously take the kid with Latin over the one with ICT all other things being equal??

That shows how ridiculous your argument is.

I have to admit that I started to read that but became rather bored so gave up. Although that in itself means nothing. I am sure a Chemistry syllabus would have a similair effect on me.

I agree it is being rushed fivecandles.

I do think they should do Maths, English, Science:
1 humanity - including RE, HIST and GEOG
1 Language
Have 2 free options. I have students who would choose three humanities and then continue this trend at A level. Some students may choose creative options. Some may have a lighter option and a second language.

Agree jen. But you can't force languages on them suddenly at age 13 if they haven't done them properly up till that point.

fivecandles ICT gcse yes i would

my kids did absolutely BOG all for their ICT GCSE and both took it a year early both got A*

its a waste of time

my third child now choosing his GCSEs and he has chosen latin. If he is FORCED to do ict then he will but i rate it as nothing more than a waste of an education

I agree totally fivecandles. I have been taking the phonecalls from anxious parents all week and totally empathise with their concerns.

We are dealing with teenagers, some of them had decided they were not going to continue with a language so they had started to switch off. They then find out that they will need to continue with a language.

I think that is very reasonable, jenandberry - and I do think 5 GCSEs is in itself too low a number to be judged a "success". Using 7 subjects, including 2 where the pupil has total discretion, would be a modest improvement.

I think that in this day and age with globalisation it is more importsnt than ever that children leave school with a sound understanding of other peoples background and places.

If I was going to employ a school leaver to work in a nursing home I'd rather they had Health and Social Care than History as well.

But if I was going to employ a social worker I'd rather they had a degree and then it wouldn't really matter what GCSEs they had.

Do you see my point?

When you become a professional your GCSEs don't really matter, it's your professional qualifications that matter most. If you're going to get a job straight out of school you're better off doing qualifcations that will equip you for that job.

Err obviously I meant your previous post!

the baccalaureate thing is essentially only what my kids (state) schools do anyway

compulsory

3 sciences
lit
lang
language
maths
rs

and two to choose

Yes but without the RS!

Well yes moldy but it would be good if they COULD choose from the spare 2 rather than be told that RS or Drama or Music don't count.

Well, I don't know huge amounts about ICT but, as I say, if I wanted to get a kid around here to build me a website I'd ask someone with ICT GCSE rather than Latin.

Clearly it depends on how your options system works. But most students will have a choice of 2 further GCSEs which could include RS or Drama.

well my son DID take rs to a level and when he got his university offer he was THEN told it did not count!

A level - not a level!

Why not fivecandles, couldn't they just start from scratch? Do a summer school maybe?

Yes, GCSEs are effectively worthless in most white-collar jobs these days - but they still count when it comes to university entrance. Bad teachers are still pushing bright though naive pupils into making bad choices. Teachers know that a universities simply won't accept certain subjects - it should be against their moral equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath to foist teenagers with subjects which are seen as a joke.

I think the government is doing a very good thing for social mobility by forcing universities to disclose their lists of non-subjects publicly, hopefully cutting teachers out of the decision-making loop a bit.

That is very odd Moldy. What was he applying to do. I can see that if he wants to do medicine for example it may be an issue but otherwise it should not be a problem.

Start what from scratch? Lost you there.

What was the course called?

YOu have some v odd ideas about teachers long. We don't push them into making bad choices. We give them good advice based on what we know about their abilities and prferences.

I also don't think universites care whether aa kid has RE or History or Drama or ICT if they've got good grades and got their Eng and Maths etc.

The trouble is that good web designers have very rarely gone on courses - and virtually never at an introductory level.

In any case, the web design covered in the ICT syllabus could be learnt in about 10 minutes by looking at the W3C website.

Universities want a core of good grades in good subjects at GCSE - but they don't rank good grades in bad subjects equally with good grades in good subjects.

And when it comes to AS-Level and A-Levels, they certainly do discriminate against soft sujbects.