stay independent or move into state for secondary?

[cantdecidewhattodo]

Trying to decide between keeping DD in independent sector or move her to state for secondary

At the moment she is at a lovely prep with senior school (in yr6 at the moment)

She loves the school and wants to stay on into the senior school. We struggle with the fees at the moment. The senior school fees are approx 10% more than the prep. She is sitting for a scholarship which would cover 10% of the fees.

The other option is the excellent local girls comp. Within walking distance so very likely to get a place, good academic reputation, seems to be good for the extra curricular activities she likes. But being honest it is not as good as her present school. But it is free.

If she goes to state, would relieve a lot of financial pressure. If she stays independent we may have to downsize the house to free up some capital. Not keen to do this as we love our house.

Have put in application for state but have to make decision by March, which is when places are offered.

Also have DS in yr4, is at present in v good boys prep. Boys state options are much worse than girls, would not really feel happy with any of the boys schools on offer.

What to do? Would I be terrible to consider putting DD in state, but keeping DS private? I pay for lots of extra curricular activities for her while DS just does stuff at school. Should I keep struggling to pay the fees or give up the fight to ease the financial situation?

I think meba's comment sums up exactly why you should send your dd to the comp. How horrible if she was to get the attitude that meba obviously has that mixing with poorer kids is somehow bad

Hi not a bit of it. I firmly believe children should mix with a wide variety of people from all kinds of backgrounds. The OP would, it seems, in an ideal world like to keep her child at a school that she is happy at and they as a family have faith in. My comments about the state school refered to the fact that even in the greenest leafiest suburbs a school will have a variety of kids so you cant say . well that school did well because they all came from priviledged backgrounds. Poor and priviledge are meant in their brodest terms. Not just financial. 68% A-C from a school with a mixed intake may well be doing better than 98% from a selected group. BTW both my children attend state schools

It's a difficult situation.

How do the sixth form results of both schools compare and what universities do the academic girls progress to?

Perhaps a third way may be to move house so both your son and daughter can attend a good state school. Seems a bit unfair if your daughter passes the entrance exam for the upper school that she is moved but her brother gets to stay. Different if she wasn't capable of staying.

However, on the face of it the state results are good for a mixed intake. I would interrigate the results a little more - how do the schools measure when comparing the numbers of girls who achieve 5 A*-C at GCSE including English, maths,science, MFL and one other (say history / geography)?

Too late to move LadyLapsang - deadline for secondsry school entries already passed.

Sixth form not such an issue as we could afford for DD to go private for that if she wants.

You make it seem as if I am punishing my DD by considering moving her. If there was an equally good boys state school we would move DS as well. But there isn't.

bulby - I read meba's post as saying that the comp will have a very mixed intake so to get good results with a wide range of abilities shows good teaching.

Nowhere did I read anything about wanting to avoid poorer kids.

It is such a hard decision. We had to make a similar one for DD1 (now yr9). I still quiz myself most days as to whether we realy did the right thing by moving her.

She was in private pre-prep from age 3. Then took 7+ and went to a highly selective prep school, which goes right through to 18. She loved it there for the fist three years, then became a bit lazy and started to resent being pushed. We were also struggling financially at the time. Never any question of her work not being good enough to be there - just that she was in the middle workwise, when her teachers felt she was capable of being near the top. We did actually receive a 20% bursary for her in year 6, so don't think they wanted her to go.

We are also in a very affluent area, although there is a slightly wider difference in the results between the private and comp she is now at. 100% A* to C at the private vs 70% / 59% at the comp. I think this is mainly due to a "brain drain" into 3 excellent selective privates, all generally in the top 150 in the country.

The comp is a good school, heavily oversubscribed.

We were prepared for DD being ahead work wise, and this has not been too much of a problem. Made sure she had plenty extra CA etc.
In some ways she had less adjusting to make than those moving from state primaries, as had been used
to separate subject teachers from year 5.
BUT by far the biggest shock has been being around children that don't want to learn and are disruptive.
She just didn't see any of that in the private schools.

Like the OP we could have down-sized, possibly gone into mote debt. But we chose not to. DD2 has been in the state sector since reception. It seemed unfair to start the private cycle with her and not be able to continue. Luckily, with 6 school years between them, there would have been little overlap.

So we made the choice we did primarily for financial reasons. But I can't pretend that DDs attitude and early "underachiever" signs didn't help swing it. She was happy to move at the time, but now says she would have preferred to stay.
As I see it now, the most likely outcome is that she will not push herself and come out with a string of B/C grade GCSEs. If she had stayed at the private school, she may have ended up with a string if A"s - or she may have been pushed over the edge.

It sounds like your DD is highly motivated, so will do well wherever she goes. if finances are going to be an issue long term, then the move must be made now. It would be awful to need to do it a couple of years down the line, and not get to chose a half decent comp.

But if you really know the finances will be OK in a
couple of years, is there any way at all you could get the money to cover this period? It seems a real shame to pull her out of an environment in which she is happy and doing well. However good the comp, she will notice the difference.

It really doesn't seem that hard a decision to me. You will really struggle with the fees (poss not in 2 years but you can't be sure) and you have a great state option. I think you're really lucky.
I think sometimes people can't bear to deny their children private education as they feel that making a decision based on finances when you're talking about children's futures is somehow immoral. Instead of thinking of it as money saved why not convert it into something that will make you feel less emotive and guilty eg a) you being able to be flexible about your work and spend more time with your children b) or your dh c) being able to save the money on fees and put it towards helping them with living costs and tuition at university d) using the money instead to help with living costs while they do a work placement that could help them get a job etc, etc. You may feel differently about the saving then.

circular - I can't know for absolutely certain that finances will be Ok in a couple of years (who can I guess?) but if the plans for DHs business work out as they should then we will be significantly better off.

We probably could scrape through for the next two years, I think. Will be very close though.

Would just be so much more relaxed if we did not have this burden - but should I just put up with it a bit longer for sake of DD?

Then again, she will benefit from the easing of cashflow along with the rest of the family.

Polly - yes, we could certainly save more towards uni fees, then DD would have less of a burden with that.

AAArgh, just don't know...

We took our dd from private into state, away from all her friends. The guilt kept me awake from February when we made the decision until she started in September this year. She is fine, new school is great she has loads of new freinds, still sees the old ones and I am sleeping again!

"BUT by far the biggest shock has been being around children that don't want to learn and are disruptive"

TBH, I think you would probably get that with any move from a small primary to a large secondary though.

"BUT by far the biggest shock has been being around children that don't want to learn and are disruptive"

TBH, I think you would probably get that with any move from a small primary to a large secondary though.>>

Agree to some extent, but we are talking about moving from a selective to non-selective here - so this is something the OP needs to be prepared for.

DD1s previous school was only 2 classes of 18 from years 3 to 6 rising to 4 * 18 in yr 7. I have friends with children in private selective secondary schools in other areas that are much larger, and on the whole everyone wants to work. Same for the grammar schools that don't generally have the smaller class size.

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but from our experience, I really wouldn't rely on your DH's new business bringing in sufficient money to pay for school fees any time soon. I'm afraid that the best and luckiest of new businesses, with good contacts and a good track record in the past, take time to get established and move to making money. The result can be extremely stressful for the whole family, without the demands to find the extra tens of thousands for school fees.

I would jump at the chance of sending your daughter to the good state school.

I work in the education sector, talking to a lot of teachers, and it's often very interesting to see the difference between how the teachers present their opinions of the way in which the school manages teaching and the children, and the way in which the same school is seen by the wider public.

Grendel - its not a new business but DH has expansion plans. It is actually an old established professional firm and DH and his partner are planning to buy a block of new fees from a retiring sole practitioner. All funded by the firm, and by earnout clauses, not personally by us and low risk.

So should be all upside and no downside. If there was any risk of losing money DH would not do it and he could stick with business as it is.

Please do not worry about making any points you want, I am very grateful for all the input and I need to be told the unvarnished truth even if you need to tell me I am being a bit of a prat!

Had parents evening for DD last night.

Had quick chat with head and told her we had applied for local comp as back up as had ome doubts about ability to pay fees.

She said they were really, really keen for DD to come to senior school and we should look into possibility of bursary. We said we would not qualify as DHs income too high, but she said to talk to the school as they might be able to help us. So will do that, worth a try.

Also have been offered more days at work, which will help.

So looking more likely that DD will be able to stay on.

Byblyofyle ^^
It is my experience that 'weaker' teachers gravitate to 'poor' areas - and stay there. Perpetuating the lack of achievement.
That is the reason why we took our dtr out of the failing state school she was in and subjected ourselves to a life of penury to put her in an indie. She has never been happy as she is 'now learning' - her words.
Obviously not every state school is poor, underachieving or rubbish. But the ones where we live happen to be. Best thing I ever did.
Sorry for hijacking, but generalised comments like this make me

Laydee - I agree. Teachers at DDs present school are fantastic and I can't see how teachers at the comp would be better, they may however be as good.

Weaker teachers would not last 5 minutes at a good indie as the parents would complain immediately. IME parents at private schools are much less likely to put up with poor teaching as they are paying for it so feel entitled to have their views heard.

Friends with DCs at well regarded state schools have told me that, on occasions they have had issues with the school, they have been told to take their DCs out if they are not happy as they have a long list of DCS waiting to take their place.