Year 7 dd asking to be home schooled. Don't know what to do

[tittybangbang]

DD started at secondary in September and has been clamouring to leave for the last two weeks. From our point of view we can't see what the problem is: she's super confident, has made loads of new friends, her teachers think she's fantastic (music, English, science and drama at least).

The school has got a very, very rough intake but is well run and recently received an 'Outstanding' from Ofsted.

She's in top sets for everything but is cruising - I don't think her work is up to much: she's clever but very, very lazy and disorganised.

Years ago the subject of home schooling came up in a casual way and she's hooked on to that. I personally would LOVE to home school her. I only work p/t and am a qualified secondary school teacher. DD turned 11 in August and has a reading age of 15, reads a lot and is very musical. I feel I could do a lot with her, but DH is convinced it's a terrible idea. His view is that she's a lazy hard-head who doesn't take instruction well and that I'm too chaotic and disorganised to make a reasonable fist of it.

My aim would be to prepare her for entry to a performing arts college at 14 - there's a very good one near us that takes children from this age. I've found her a fantastic piano teacher who she's making good progress with and my sister would help out: she's a primary music specialist and a guitarist with a fair amount of experience of writing and recording music.

I don't think dd is being bullied or that there's any other social reason for her not wanting to stay. I just think she's not enjoying the way secondary is organised: the homework, the moving from room to room during the day, the fractured schedules, the complexity and breadth of the curriculum. I don't think the answer would be to move her and actually this isn't possible anyway as there is no decent school near us that doesn't have a waiting list as long as your arm.

Would very much appreciate you clever ladies thoughts on this. Especially if you've home schooled a child of this age.

Thanks!

Would very much appreciate

I think it's quite unusual for a teenager to even think about homeschooling (most would say euwwww spending all day with mum, no way!) so I think it's really worth taking her seriously here.

How does she think it'd work though? Is she imagining it'd be doing whatever she wants all day? You need to have a really good talk about how you'd structure her time and learning, how she would socialise etc. Sounds like you need to have that talk with her dad too - maybe he has some misconceptions about homeschooled children?

BTW if you want to know the practical points of homeschooling at secondary you should start a thread on the home ed board on MN. Tis a lovely informative place!

Thanks FreudianSlimmery - will head that way 9didn't know there was a home ed board!)

Go for it!

What have you got to lose? You can always put her back in school if it doesn't work out - but imagine if it did. Loads of time to do piano etc.

Be brave :)

(I'm very jealous. I'd love to homeschool, but my children don't want to.)

If she's only just started year 7 then she hasn't given secondary school much of a chance, has she. Can you leave it a while before you make the decision? Why is there a rush?

Young teens can be contrary. I remember being very academic and knowing I would try for Oxbridge. For a while at 14 or 15 I toyed with the idea of art college (by which I mean the local tech, nowhere high flying, I wasn't good enough and I knew that.) My parents, very wisely, let me talk about it for a while. In hindsight, I didn't really want to go, I just wanted to know that I could have the option if I wanted it. I went to Cambridge in the end

She hasn't been at her school for long so maybe she's just having trouble settling in.
Can you go and speak to her class tutor?

I will go and speak to her tutor. She found the last year of primary tough socially - kept falling out with her friends and was bored a lot of the time.

Problem from my POV is that I don't think she's getting a brilliant education at this school, and socially it's very rough. Very few m/c kids there - shouldn't matter but it does. DD is so different when she's with her cousins and the children of friends of the family. With her school friends she tends to act up a lot - very silly and over the top. I always wonder if it's because she's bored. Not sure what could make it better. She has got friends at her new school - has already been for a sleepover with two of them and had them round here. But she says apart from her friends she hates everyone there.

I can see why other kids might not like her - she's got a sharp tongue and a short temper. Talks rings round her friends. Can just see the way ahead being so rocky - her bored and already underachieving. Falling out with people. Keep thinking that there must be a better environment for her. Talking about it with the school is obviously the next step, but not expecting miracles.

Sounds like she's in the wrong school for her. Do you have any alternative schools? Somewhere that might push her a bit more academically and where she might find more like-minded friends?

No.

We live in a very deprived part of the borough. We're not church-goers and don't fall into the catchment area of any more academic schools.

Can't afford private. One grammar school within travelling distance - over 1200 girls applied for 120 places. Many of these girls bussed in for the test from local private prep schools where they've had a year of 11+ booster classes, plus private tuition and been taught in classes of 15 from reception. DD has had no private tuition and has spent the last 6 years as one of a class of 30 in an inner city primary. She's smart, but she's not a genius. I just feel like she doesn't stand a chance really.

Agree with norflondoner, sounds like the wrong school for her. Also, think some of the things you have said about her makes me think the right school would be better than home education. We all have to be part of a community and most people expect to work. Surely it's better she learns to apply herself and curb her sharp tongue and short temper now rather than later on.

I wonder how much the desire for home education may stem from your wishes. If a child who isn't being bullied said they wanted to stay home most parents would have to say no because they work. Maybe you could look to extend your hours so you can open up some options school wise (move house or pay fees) or take a job in a good independent school which would offer your DD a place.

LadyLapsang: We all have to be part of a community and most people expect to work.

Home-educated young people fall into those categories too, LadyLapsang. My DC have been home-educated throughout so they have been able to concentrate on the things that matter to us but DD has just started at uni and is getting on fine. In fact, so far she is volunteering for presentations, etc. along with foreign students - the wonderfully "socialised" products of the UK school system are sitting back and letting others take the lead.

If OP's DD needs to learn to apply herself, it would be better if she were not in an environment where she can coast. If home-educated, she and OP could set goals appropriate to her age, aptitude and ability, as the Education Act requires, rather than appropriate to the goals the government sets for the school.

How would it work with you working part time though?

SDeuchars, I'm not against home schooling. I know two charming and bright home schooled young people but they didn't become home schooled through a parent choosing to live vicariously through them.

My DS has just started at uni too and has taken on extra responsibilities, our children could even be at the same uni.

You talk about young people leaving UK schools as 'products' which I think is sad. My son - along with the vast majority of children and young people in this country - are educated at home with their families and at school, but they're not 'products', they are people.

Schools aren't perfect but neither is society. I think learning to cope with the ups and downs of school life can be really good preparation for life. I'm not talking about having to cope with bullying, just the fact that you may have to wait your turn, consider others, work as a team, get along with people you may not like etc.

Taking a child out of school is a big decision and I'm not sure you should do it if your DH thinks it a 'terrible idea' and the child has only mentioned it for the last fortnight.

"but they didn't become home schooled through a parent choosing to live vicariously through them"

I don't need to 'live vicariously' through my children. I have challenging and exciting teaching work that I do in the evenings and some weekends. But I feel sad at the thought that my dd being unhappy and bored at school. I enjoy my dd's company and would love to do more with her. Right now I don't do as much as I'd like - she's too tired and grumpy after school and we have no time alone together (I have two boys at primary).

"just the fact that you may have to wait your turn, consider others, work as a team, get along with people you may not like etc"

She sees more examples of considerate behaviour and team work outside of school - we have a large extended family and are part of a close knit community.

And sadly she's already being exposed, if not to bullying good and proper, to low level unpleasantness and rudeness at school on a day to day basis from other pupils.

But yes - you're right, it's a big decision, and both DH and I need to be as one when it comes to our children's education.

Having observed in some rougher schools I know my hot house flower children would not thrive there (they fortunately are at a much more m/c school), however well the school is oing at OFSTED.

However I would also have to contradict others as my teenage kids have from time to time requested to be homeschooled, so I think it is more common than you think. At least one of them requests it because he thinks it would be easier, and doesn't really have an idea of how hard he would have to work. But on the other hand I would have loved to have been home schooled and would have thrived on it. My teenage years at a rougher w/c school were very difficult.

Maybe your DH needs to see what it is really like at your daughter's school, and meet some homeschooled children. Some I know are wonderful, mature, self-motivated individuals.

TBB have you talked to your DH and DD about this yet?

She is quite a big girl: I would sit down and talk to her in a positive way about how the two (three) of you could make home education work, how it would be organised, how she would make arrangements for a social life etc etc. The more you involve her in practical discussion the easier it will be to gauge whether she is really serious about this and would be part of making it work.

Problem is Cory that there's a real conflict going on between me and DH over this - we're not at the point of discussing HE with dd in a rational way because DH is adamant that it would be a disaster for her. DH has no faith that dd and I could achieve anything together educationally - basically because she's a stroppy hard-head and I'm terribly disorganised, and if truth be known generally quite lazy.

My view is that I can't be THAT chuffing bad. I worked in FE for 10 years and for five of those was GCSE co-ordinator for English language and literature. Always managed to deliver the syllabus, get the kids entered for the right papers, and mark the coursework (just), on top of all the other things I was doing. I teach parent craft now (did a DIPHE while the kids were babies) and get really good feedback from my clients, who are all professional people. Get loads and loads of comments about what a fantastic teacher I am. I love teaching, I'm just a shit organiser.

It's a real pisser - pressing so many buttons for me. And in the mean time it's me having to get dd up and into school in the morning, and cope with her misery afterwards. Me who's got to help her sort her (crappy, meaningless) homework out. Ho hum. What to do.

Hmm so your DH is really anti he then. Awkward for you and DD. It's a shame, I really don't see why his feelings should so much get in the way of what could be really great for your DD.

Have you read much about educational philosophies? Maybe you should sit down with DD and write one. Discuss everything you would study, how you'd structure her day, what resources you'd use and what clubs she would join etc. Tell her that you are willing to consider it but in order to convince her dad you will have to prove to him that you will make it work.

I used to teach in a rough school. The culture was alien to me. I'd have hated to send dd there. I think, in your situation, I'd seriously consider the home schooling. Start planning it as a serious option then you won't feel so swayed by your husband's doubts.

My DS is in yr7 at the moment. I am concerned to hear that your DD is saying that she is bored - yr7 should be (and is in a good school) a massive step up from primary. New subjects, new equipment, new teachers, higher expectations, new organisational demands on them, new extra-curricular opportunities.

Maybe this school isn't right, but that doesn't mean necessarily that home ed would be either and I've heard many times that it only works if the whole family is fully on board. How would you teach her maths, science? Is there no private school locally that you could approach for a bursary? Would you qualify for bursaries? Are you certain you couldn't afford private, not any way at all?

I understand that you are pissed off with perceived criticism from your DH, but are you sure there are no other options? Don't just did your heels in, have a look around! (Can you move house?)

It's a shame that this came up after half-term - you could have had a week of pretend home-schooling and see if it really worked. Perhaps ask her to do something in the evenings to show what she would do? How long do you think that she would keep it up?

Have you spoken to the pastoral people at school? Why has it suddenly come up in the last two weeks? Why is she being allowed to cruise: is she hiding her light under a bushel in class and not getting the right extension work (can you sell the extension work to her as home/self education by another name)?

"DH has no faith that dd and I could achieve anything together educationally - basically because she's a stroppy hard-head and I'm terribly disorganised, and if truth be known generally quite lazy.

My view is that I can't be THAT chuffing bad. I worked in FE for 10 years and for five of those was GCSE co-ordinator for English language and literature. Always managed to deliver the syllabus, get the kids entered for the right papers, and mark the coursework (just), on top of all the other things I was doing. I teach parent craft now (did a DIPHE while the kids were babies) and get really good feedback from my clients, who are all professional people. Get loads and loads of comments about what a fantastic teacher I am. I love teaching, I'm just a shit organiser."

You're right, he's wrong. But you knew that, didn't you? Here are all the reasons he's wrong:

1. As you said, you are capable of getting your act together when the chips are down, and you have done proved this over the years.

1. Being well organised is not essential even if you are doing a highly structured curriculum. So you forgot to do maths Monday because you got sidetracked. Do it Tuesday instead. What's the big deal? There are no deadlines. It isn't like school, where you actually have to be somewhere at the right time wearing the right clothing and bringing the right gear because you must fit in with other people's schedules and rules. If you managed to organise for school, HE will be easy by comparison.

1. With older children in particular, it is not the parent organising the child. It is a partnership between them, and often it is actually the child who is the driving force, since it is the child who wants to learn. When my dd wanted to learn to read, we set aside time every evening to do it together. It was something she wanted to do, so she reminded me. Sometimes it happened at a different time of day or not at all, and that was not the end of the world.

1. You describe your daughter as stubborn, or rather your dh does. This being the case, you may well find that autonomous learning is the best way forward, following her interests. This can be very laid-back and flexible, and requires no great powers of organisation or discipline. You make suggestions, answer questions, help your child do what she wants to do. I am at least as scatty as you, and my daughter has learned brilliantly through this method.

1. One-to-one attention from an interested adult is so valuable that you don't have to spend much time on formal education, even if you choose to do things formally. You're under no time pressure. So even if you did waste the majority of your time faffing around being inefficient, with the history DVD lost under a heap of laundry and the books you ordered languishing uncollected at the library, you'd still achieve what you need to achieve.

I'm sure there are more reasons why your dh is wrong. Give me a minute!

@senua: "It's a shame that this came up after half-term - you could have had a week of pretend home-schooling and see if it really worked. Perhaps ask her to do something in the evenings to show what she would do? How long do you think that she would keep it up?"

The idea of a trial run of home education during the holidays appeals to many people, but it doesn't tend to give an accurate picture of what HE would look like. Sometimes children are tired from school and need their holiday, and resent being made to work then. It nearly always takes a good deal longer than a week for parent and child to let go of the expectation that home education must somehow resemble school-at-home. They need time to find their feet and discover the many ways of learning, and to notice that it really is working even when it may appear that no "work" is getting done.

I absolutely wouldn't sit a tired child down in the evenings and make her do extra work!! That won't say anything about her motivation or ability to succeed with home education. It only sets her up to fail and to acquire a bad attitude toward learning.

"How would you teach her maths, science?"

DH could do the science. He's got a PHd in chemistry so it should be beyond him.

My sister has offered to do the maths (she's a primary school teacher but brilliant at maths herself) on a Friday, which is her day off. She's 47, has no kids and has a great relationship with my dd.

Can't afford private. No real chance of dd getting a bursary. Can't move house.