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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

help any year 7 maths teacher could give me an honest opinion PLEASE

34 replies

overweightnoverdrawn · 07/10/2010 12:15

Hope someone can give me some advice please . So trying not to come across as a pushy precious parent . My ds is good at maths has a fantastic understanding of all the concepts and dosnt struggle . He was doing year 8 maths in year 6 of his primary as were the rest of the top maths group he was in . He goes to a maths and IT College (secondary state) school . We chose this over another high achieving secondary school because of the maths . He got level 5 in all his sats . He comes home says he is bored at maths . He does his work in class then gets given some extra and then some more extra work and THEN he is told to help other students in the class (this isnt right is it helping is fine its the lack of work for him ) I telephone the school and spoke ever so nicely to the head of year 7 learning saying I dont want to be seen as a pushy parent and told her my concerns and saying that what ever she decides is fine by me . She said they asses them on their sats results and the assesments they have done so far at the new school . This morning I download his maths homework for tonight being an IT school what you can do on the computer is bloomin fantastic ) ( well to me it is as I am so new to all this LOL ) Any way the down loaded homework is what I would say he covered in year 4 of primary . its Maths Link by Oxford University press 7b assesment level 4 . I was and am feeling so frustrated as I dont want to look like the precious parent saying he is in the wrong set but the work is not enough ,even he says he is bored and not challenged enough . Dont get me wrong I know my sons failings well enough (whiney lippy lazy soap dodger ) but I also know what he is capable of . So HELP what do I, do leave it till next week and phone school again giving them time to sort it out .Do I phone his old school and ask his maths teacher (easy to do as she is so lovely and kind and knows me so well ) Speak to them tomorrow . I am just so new to all this that I dont want to rock the boat . I am used to being seen by his old school as a supportive parent coming down on the side of the teachers ,homework always in ,help given when needed (trips and such ) They knew they could always tell me the truth about my Ds and I was never the parent in a million years that would say Oh no my son would never do that .I just want some advice really is this the right stuff for him and if not how far and when do i spaek to the school again TIA sorry its so long aI am a bit of a chatter box in Rl lol

OP posts:

Original poster

overweightnoverdrawn · 07/10/2010 12:16

feel free if any one wants to put this long post into paragraphs I wont take offence honest .

OP posts:

Kez100 · 07/10/2010 12:38

It appears to me that you have had contact with year 7 leader but only very, very briefly - enough for her/him to explain how assessments are done.

I would now, given the homework he has been given, contact the Head of Maths and ask more questions. Supportive parents do have a different way of asking things than pushy ones and I am sure that will be obvious straight away!

At our school you would be able to do this without the fuss of a meeting as we have a year 7 parents teachers evening very early on - about October time - so any issues like this, as well as settling in, can be raised.

I personally would approach the HOD of Maths for a chat (either via a meeting or the year 7 settling in evening if you have one) to find out a lot more than just how they are assessed and to let the school know he has commented that the homework was very easy and his time in class is not challenging at all.

Kez100 · 07/10/2010 12:39

It appears to me that you have had contact with year 7 leader but only very, very briefly - enough for her/him to explain how assessments are done.

senua · 07/10/2010 13:26

Sorry: don't understand.
Have they been setted yet?

Kez100 · 07/10/2010 13:32

Yes, that is what I am wondering too Senua. Maybe they they use the first half term for assessment and covering old work - to make sure they really do know it and remember it after the summer break!

I've been in a similar situation with daughter going into GCSE French and a lot of KS3 revision work up until now which she found easy because she remembered it. However, I've been informed that it is common to do this and make sure all children are up to speed on KS3 stuff at the start of GCSE and that, soon now, the work difficulty will take off!

Original poster

overweightnoverdrawn · 07/10/2010 13:40

Thanks for the advice. That one sentance about how a pushy parent asks and how a supportive parent asks has totally made me feel better so thank you so much . I think they have been streamed because another class got told that they were the top maths group not my sons class if you see what I mean . If you saw this home work you would so know its not right for him . I will send a message to his class tutor . (thank goodness he is a maths teacher but not my sons )(bummer) and will ask him how to go about setting up a meeting with the head of maths for year 7 .thank you

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titchy · 07/10/2010 13:53

I think it would be unusual if he had been put into sets this early. Most schools move dcs into sets after half term. Then the work shoudl be more at his level.

titchy · 07/10/2010 13:55

By the way dds maths homework last week was to learn 2 and 3 times tables! However if this is the level of homework once she's in her set I will complain, but not at the moment while they're teaching in mixed abilities.

Original poster

overweightnoverdrawn · 07/10/2010 14:00

thank you so much for replying i will play a small waiting game . Keep you fingers crossed for me .

OP posts:

senua · 07/10/2010 14:00

Perhpas phrase it as "what does he have to do to go up a set?"
There is the old problem that, if the DC is not engaged, then they don't work so the teacher has no evidence to convince him/her to move set. DS has to realise that he needs to display the evidence to the teacher; the teacher will not be sitting there thinking "shall I move OWnODson to another set today?", they are too busy for that.

Acanthus · 07/10/2010 14:02

It's early days yet, give them time to sort things out (and set!)

DameGladys · 07/10/2010 14:11

Agree with allowing a bit of time as the teachers don't know the pupils well yet.

But even if pupils stay in mixed ability groups, there should be appropriate work and homework set. Work should be differentiated within the group even if it is only for the first half term.

Able pupils helping others in the class can be good if set up properly but not if all the time and you suspect it's just to shut them up because there is no more extension material.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 07/10/2010 14:12

As others have said - but also, helping others is really useful.

Sometimes you really do learn best when you're teaching, iyswim.

Jux · 07/10/2010 14:31

We had a 'family maths evening' last night. They did say that this first half term it's mainly getting to know each child's strengths adn weaknesses. They also said that each child will move group a lot as they progress through the school and they're understanding of some concepts is greater and other concepts is weaker etc.

We too have a parents' evening next week. I am waiting for that before I start asking about dd's startling results in literacy and will see what they have to say first.

Jux · 07/10/2010 14:39

their understanding

mnistooaddictive · 07/10/2010 14:41

phone head of Maths and ask about setting. There are children who end up in wrong set! Ask if he is set and what set he is in and wht it was based on. If he is not in the top set say that you think he should be and can he be assessed. If it is still mixed ability then he may have to put up with it for a while. Until you know your class it is very difficult to set different homework without making some children feel inadequate. Some children assume they are top set when they aren't so the other child could be wrong.
You learn the most be explaining cvoncepts to others. It really does imprint thigs in your brain and having to explain to someone else makes you really consider what you are talking about.

Original poster

overweightnoverdrawn · 07/10/2010 16:33

I am taking on board everything you are saying .
I do think its good to show others as said you do learn when teaching . All I really want is DS to be in the right set not too hard and not too easy . He has a brain the education is free and I want him to use it . lol

OP posts:

Kez100 · 07/10/2010 18:18

I disagree with mnistooaddictive that your son should be in top set and that you should say so. That is what a pushy parent does! Sorry, but it is true.

We do not have enough information here to say that your son should be in top set.

The school may have a big cohort of level 5's and level 5c's may have been/will be differentiated from 5a's. The number of sets in the school makes a difference too.

My son scored a 5b at KS2 science and did go into set 1 but it was soon obvious that some in set 1 were more like level 6 or 7 - just KS2 didn't test that! My son was a genuine KS2 5b. He is now in set 2 and that is the right place for him.

So, do not assume anything you do not know. Deal with what you do know - he is not challenged in class nor via homework, and I am sure the school will be delighted to hear from you.

mnistooaddictive · 07/10/2010 18:27

I never said he should be in set 1, but to ask why he isn't is fair enough! If you genuinely think he should then it is ok to say so. To not accept it when told the set is right is what a pushy parent does!

Original poster

overweightnoverdrawn · 07/10/2010 19:41

Now Ive had more time to digest everything what I really want is for him to be challeneged at school . I know his english is not as good as his maths and thats fine I just dont want to let him down by not flagging it up IYSWIM. They have more experience than me but by saying something at least I will know that he is in the right set . I trust the school they are so welcoming and they do seem to listen so I dont want to spoil my relationship with them , I will spaek to head of maths and see what he says . if they know what I think they will then look at the whole situation . I have told him he better work his hardest or I will look like a right muppet . LOL

OP posts:

mnistooaddictive · 07/10/2010 20:07

Good for you! I always think it is better to be honest about your concerns. As long as you are prepared to listen to the answer nobody minds you asking!

I used to do year 7 setting and was the person all these calls for forwarded to. For a year group of 240 we would get about 50 phone calls. Some were right and their child was in the right set, some were mistaken but from the best of motives and a few were, well lets say they had got confused the real situation! I preferred people to be upfront and polite rather than beating around the bush!

bruffin · 08/10/2010 12:27

I knew DD was in the wrong set for maths. She was in the second set, but we were told that the curriculum for the top two sets were the same so I didn't say anything.
I left DD to prove herself which she did by coming top in her class and taking an active part in the lesson and she was moved when she went into year 8. I think DDs problem was although she got high sats score, which she would have done in 20 minutes, she underperformed in her CATs which they also use for setting and targeting. She admitted she was having a bad day when she did her cats. Her target for end of ks3 is 7.5 but she is on track for a very high 8 now.

Original poster

overweightnoverdrawn · 09/10/2010 12:25

ok small update . The head of maths year thingy returned my call and said they were going to moniter it and that they look at sets every half term .
He also said that ds had to ask teacher for more work in class if bored and basically he has to show them he is in the wrong set . No problems with this at all .
Also at this school if a child is in the top set and shouldnt really be there they will move them down (ouch ) and they also move children around . I sort of agree with this but having just come from junior school where pastrol care is at its strongest and NO child is moved down this dosnt sit too comfortably with me .
Then again I think that real life is like this and you have to keep your game up and work hard ,no messing around ,do work ,home work and such like . so Its still a waiting game and fingers crossed .

OP posts:

bruffin · 09/10/2010 12:42

There is nothing wrong with moving down a set if child isn't coping. The best thing I did for DS was get him moved down a set for MFL.It took a lot of pressure of him.

DD told me yesterday that there are 35 in her maths set, which is too many and they are looking to move someone to set 2.

MmeBlueberry · 09/10/2010 15:10

I think you need to speak to the Head of Maths, not the Head of Year.

I don't think that it is acceptable to set them and base their work on their Sats performance. They need to use IQ-type tests, which they should run in the first week or two of term (ie teach them in rough sets or form groups for the first two weeks, then move them into proper sets based on their potential in maths).

As a teacher, my advise is usually to listen to the school and stop being precious. There is only one time that I have intervened in my DC's education and that is when DS1 was placed in a rubbish maths set, against all our instincts (but based on his homework habits up until that point). I am glad to say that he did A-level in Further Maths and is now reading Maths Engineering at a top uni. I shudder to think what could have happened had we no intervened.

My advise would not to fixate on his Sats results - those are very much a measure of the teaching he had in his junior school. Press the senior school on their baseline testing (CAT, MidYIS, etc.)

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