If your school does not have a 6th Form...

[Madsometimes]

Where did your dc go? Were you satisfied with their options? Did they need a settling down period in their new school/college or did they hit the ground running?

Most of the schools I am looking at do not have 6th forms. At 16, some of the children get a place in a different school that does have a 6th form and some go to the feeder 6th form college. Places at schools are hotly contested. I think I would prefer my dd to go to a school rather than a college for 6th form, but a place is far from guaranteed.

Cory - my advice would be to 'be aware' of the issues.

If you have a choice (between 11-16 schools) and have bright kids - then make sure you ask each school how many pupils go onto the sixth form, to do A levels (and onwards to university). If they don't know or won't tell you - then that should tell you something.

Look at the GCSE options available.

I would ask the head their opinion of how the lack of a sixth form effects a school (in general) and ask how their school deals with any challenges / gains from any benefits.

Btw -.I'd also visit the sixth form college and ask them about how they ensure bright pupils from their feeder schools reach their potential
(but - I realise that maybe going too far for most people).

I went to a separate 6th form and it was great - there were about 1,200 students in just 2 years, my year had probably 5 Biology A-level classes, this meant that you could do any combination of subjects without worrying about timetable clashes as you would in a school where not all arrangements would be possible.

PLus it didn't feel like being in school. When we had free periods they were free, to go to the shops, have a driving lesson, go home early, do homework, hang about, generally to organise your own time. There was no requirement to be on 'school grounds', and if you missed a lesson or didn't do your homework then your tutor would speak to you, but it was really up to you to choose to wrok hard or not.

You may think this sounds like too much freedom, but if you don't trust your child to organise their own time a little bit at 16, when they are still living with you and you can guide them, what hope do they have of surviving at university?

(Oh, and August birthday has v little to do with it, if you like anecdotal evidence my friend with a birthday of August 30th was deputy head at school, went on to a college-style 6th form and then to oxbridge)

I grewe up in a city where none of the schools had 6th forms and everyone went to the 6th form college or the FE college.

it was great and I felt that educationally it was good. We had subject specialists at A level. Great facilities and a more adult approach to learning.

The 6th form college had higher entry requirements than the FE college and we were very well prepared for the independene of university.

jackstarbright, none of the schools in the area have Sixth forms; this is the norm not just in the city, but in the surrounding county

as far as I am aware, Hampshire children are still able to access higher education

btw our family does not have much of a choice of secondary schools, as both my children have physical disabilities and only a limited of local schools have disabled access; we had to go to appeal to even get dd into a school where she could access all the classrooms

beggars can't be choosers, as they say

so my dcs will just have to work their own way into university;

have already told dd that it is up to her to ensure she gets to where she wants to be and that that is nobody else's responsibility

Of course I think it is shocking, in general terms, that some schools send so few people to RG universities, while other schools are so great at motivating and supporting their children.

But when it comes to my own children, I am a total believer in free will and will not accept as an excuse that "the school failed to motivate me". Hypocrite, me? Nah. .

"I grewe up in a city where none of the schools had 6th forms and everyone went to the 6th form college or the FE college."

It was a similar in the town I went to school in - except many left school at 16. Of those who stayed in education - it was mainly the 'middle class' pupils who went to the sixth form college whilst 'working class' pupils went to the FE college. I don't know if that's still the case.

Cory - I wonder if there has been any research comparing progress to RG university for pupils in (say) Hants 11-16 schools, with the state school average. A break down by socio-economic group would be interesting. I suspect well supported mc kids might have similar results. But it's the less well supported bright children who I suspect find the move at 16 (and the lack of a clear pathway to HE) a barrier.

As I said it will depend on the school and I agree with everyone who had a good experience at sixth form college (I certainly did.

Well yes jackstar, out of my school year of about 120-150 pupils around 12 of us went to 6th form and maybe about 15-20 went to a vocational college courses.

The area has been used as a case study for low education achievments.

Howe4ver other schools in the city did have a higher rate of those stopping on.

Fear not! I chose to go to a 6th form college rather than stay at my school 6th form. My college was fantastic and I'd say it was the making of me; I felt I never really fitted at school but at college I was able to make a fresh start.

By mixing with other students from all over the city I felt that my horizons were well and truly broadened after years spent with children from the same narrow background. It was pretty life-changing for me.

I left for university fully prepared to work on my own without being spoon-fed. I felt it was excellent preparation for university life.

That may well be the case, jackstarbright, and of course that thought is very worrying in general terms.

Doesn't really affect my thinking for my own dcs though, partly because they are well supported mc children, partly because dd has already had such a rough ride in life (chronic health problems, missed loads of school) that she cannot possibly be in any doubt that she needs to work harder than other people and motivate herself more strongly, because nobody else can do the catching up for her. In terms of the problems she has already had to overcome, the worry that this particular school may send a marginally smaller percentage to Oxbridge than some other schools seems a very small one.

Defyinggravity - Only 3 (of about 200) pupils in my year, made it from my comprehensive via the sixth form college to HE. Probably about 30 went to the sixth form college - but it was a big culture shock and most quickly dropped out. We were just so ill prepared for A levels, especially compared to the pupils from the non feeder schools (private schools and 'out of area' schools with sixth forms).

Luckily for me I did Economics - which was new to the whole class. So I started at the same level as everybody else and did well enough to bump my Ucas points.

Cory - I hope it works well for your dc's. Good home support and the right attitude counts for a lot (I should know).

We are very lucky here in South Hampshire.
The secondaries are generally good
as are the sixth form colleges
PS in Winchester is often chosen by those whose kids were at private up till 16.
PS, BP and Brock send loads of kids each year to top Unis.
Personally I'd prefer sixth form in school for academic kids
BUT it's lovely to have the choice.

DS1 had the choice of the local 6th form college or the local selective school's 6th form (not selective at 6th form). There were another couple of options, but we stuck to the those two.

He chose to attend the 6th form college, started this month, and seems to have risen to the challenge well so far.

He's an August-born child too.

Certainly a lot of dd's friends (secondary without Sixth Form) are already talking of going to university. They are at the fun, high flying, great dreams stage, but as far as I can make out their dreams do include studying and preparation, rather than winning X-factor and shagging slebs.

unknownrebel am I right in thinking you are from my area?

Selective school being St J & 6th form being S6FC

As a teacher in a a school without a 6th Form, I have to say I think there are definite benefits. We get the best GCSE results in the Borough and I think part of that must be down to the fact the teachers are focussed completely on GCSEs and not splitting our efforts between between GCSE and A level students. Also, as getting into a good 6th form is a priority, students are more aware of the importance of getting good GCSE results, rather than just coasting and assuming the school will keep them on. As there are a lot of single sex schools in my area with mixed 6th forms, there is a lot of movement at 16 anyway so I have not heard of our students feeling like second class citizens if they go to a school 6th form, there are also two good 6th form colleges in the area if that is what students prefer. It seems to work well for our students and lots go onto higher education.

I think qumquat has a point. There are only so manyhours in the day. The lunchtimes and afterschool sessions I spent with 6th formers meant their was less time for GCSE students. Alevel teaching take s ahuge amount of time marking and planning and detracts from GCSE classes.