Open evenings - I need some advice please.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Firstly my head is spinning and I'm a bit emotional. DD is in Yr5 and goes to a primary school out of county (but only 2 miles away). Her primary is a feeder for a secondary school (also out of my county). Even though we are out of the secondary's catchment I was verbally assured by the head last year that DD would definetly get a place as she went to a feeder school.

Well the secondary school has now extended its catchment area so could potentially be more oversubscribed. I friend of mine in hte same situation rang the secondary school up today and has been told its 50/50 if our kids get in.

So I now need to start looking at secondary schools in our county. I'm looking early as we may need to move DD back into a primary school in our county to get her a place at a secondary in our county (have been told this by admissions officer at secondary in our county).

So we have about 3 schools lined up to go and see over the next week or two.

One of the schools according to league tables has a 33% pass rate of GCSEs A-C grade. Other one has a 41% pass rate. These are the 2 she's likely to be offered a place at. Am I right in thinking thats really quite crap? Now thats in the official league tables but on their website the 33% school says that 91% of their pupils get 5 or more GCSEs at a-c. The other school says that 96% of their pupils get 5 or more GCSEs at A-C. Why the huge discrepency, are the official league tables worked out differently and if so how?

What sort of questions do I need to be asking?

Sorry about your situation. I can't help re league tables and the difference with what the school says but I would ask them directly about it.

33-41% does sound poor to me.

I would also ask again about whether being at the feeder school guarantees a place.

In addition I'd be asking to see most recent OFSTED reports and checking out the extra-curricular opportunities. But I'm assuming your question is specifically about the pass rates, rather than general questions to find out about school ethos etc.

The difference could be because the official table only counts the children who got A-C in English and Maths and three others, the school may be counting any 5 A-C.

My DS has just started a school with 31% but I still think it is a great school, the background of many of the children who go is very poor socially so the fact that 31% of children there get A*-C inc Eng and Maths seems like the staff must work very hard. Value Added is the league table result I'd give most sway to.

The results in the league tables include maths and english. I hope that helps :)

The 31% is quite low but the 41% is only few percent off of the national average. If a lot of children from that area go to selectives (thus taking most of the guaranteed 5 x A-C(inc EM) from their cohort then 41%, whist not great, may not be apalling.

Also, if the school has not got a big cohort each year, afew missed grades can affect the overall % quite a lot - so look at the % over time.

As others say, it may be the socio background of the area.

I would visit the schools and see how you feel once you have spoken to children, teachers and got a fee for the place.

Thanks, you're right about the lower rate including maths and english.

I'll have a look at value added scores as well. Both of these comps are in a fairly deprived area. They take kids from the city and also from some of the villages which are a bit more affluent. Some of those villages are in an 11+ area so some kids will be creamed off for that. Also the city has a rather odd selective "comprehensive" which takes X number of the brightest kids from each primary school. So I see what you're saying about how these 2 comps could be left with kids who aren't the brighest in their cohort.

Both of these comps are only a few streets away and have very similar catchments so not sure why one os 10% better than the other.

OK - the out of catchment comp that I want her to go to and has the 70% GCSE pass rate has a value added score of 1007.

The 33% pass rate comp has a value added score of 1040.4 and the 41% pass rate comp has a value added score of 1017.

So are the 2 comps with the poorer GCSE pass rates betttr schools?

The higher the Value added score the better - the 1040 is doing seriously well! It means they are really pushing their children - imagine what they could achieve with yours!in fact - sometimes schools like this are doing better than the 'top'schools - eg my sons school gets 71% but it isn't any good and should be getting more like 90% from catchment. More important questions may be - what is discipline like - go visit on a 'day' not an open day - do the children like school/rewards systems etc what is the curriculum like. Also - you may still get into your other non catchment school anyway!
It is also a good idea to look at the three year trend - with that kind of value added the 33% could be under new head - could be improving and improving.

It is a nightmare - trying to choose for my year 6 twins (and don't want my sons school as above statement) - sigh!

Those VA figures are really good. Anything over 1000 is good.

Another vote for looking at whether the average GCSE score is improving or not as well - a school near us had a 30% score a few years back.

In fact it had been even lower in previous years, but was going up 10% a year and is now in the 60s & still improving . (But now extremely hard to get into )

But if the school's high percentage doesn't include Maths & English it may mean they are focusing on the BTEC courses which count as (IIRC) 4 A-C.

This may be fine if it suits the individuals - but I would check to see that their curriculum also has straight academic subjects for those that want to do them.