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French GCSE

17 replies

NKffffffffe1c747d7X1278a9148b5 · 09/09/2010 09:57

My son's school has told me that it is more or less compulsory for him to do GCSE in French or another modern language, as not to do so would stop him getting to a good university. My daughter's school disagrees. Anyone know which is right?

OP posts:
webwiz · 09/09/2010 10:16

At the moment there is no requirement to do a language GCSE to get into a good university but I think there was some talk of bring the requirement back (I think Imperial will want it from 2012 - not sure where I read that!).

Personally i think language GCSEs are a good thing regardless.

mummytime · 09/09/2010 13:19

UCL require you to have a modern foreign language or may let you in (exceptional circumstances) and then you have to get up to standard in your first year. My DS's school is a language specialist and makes them do a language, unfortunately he is only doing an NVQ (long boring story) so its worthless to him.

FingonTheValiant · 09/09/2010 13:22

I think Oxford and Cambridge both list it as a requirement, so I'm sure others might.

maddy68 · 09/09/2010 19:18

Red brick universities do like a language. But most unis do not require it

EduStudent · 09/09/2010 20:15

As others have said, not necessarily a requirement but a definite advantage. One of my classmates at uni didn't do a language and very much regrets it as it has limited many of his module choices (and not just to language modules).

Totallyfloaty35 · 09/09/2010 20:34

DDs school insist on a language at GCSE to.They must do two up until yr10 as well.The Head says it helps with Uni applications and keeps choices open Grin

penguin73 · 11/09/2010 13:59

Some universities insist on one, the general opinion in MFL teaching is that more and more universities will start to do so as competition increases and places become more limited. This is also the case with some 6th form providers. No nationwide definitive rules on it yet though.

snorkie · 11/09/2010 15:21

It's not compulsory anywhere except UCL (& they make an exception if your school doesn't offer it). Oxford and Cambridge both removed the requirement some years ago. However, languages are looked upon very favorably so having one does improve your chances on compettive courses I'm told. It's really rather shocking just how poorly educated in languages people in this country are though. Aside form university requirements, everyone who can study a language should (to at least GCSE) imo.

tokyonambu · 11/09/2010 16:24

" Red brick universities do like a language. But most unis do not require it"

The problem is that there's a distinct difference between "the minimum the department will accept even if you've just published your first novel to wild acclaim" and "the minimum you realistically need to get in given the competition and that you're just this arbitrary applicant".

The huge advantage that children at academically-focussed schools and/or whose parents are involved in higher education is that they know about the latter, whereas other children are left relying on the former. Moreover the schools attended by those relying on the published minima further hinder their pupils' chances by offering all sorts of "ah, well, it's like an A Level" or "well, it's almost the same as that GCSE" qualifications.

So the likelihood is that for humanities you want English, History and an MFL at A Level, with History replaceable by Economics, Maths, Music or something depending on the biases of the course you want to do. For sciences you want Maths, Physics and either Biology or Chemistry, again depending on the biases of the courses you want. GCSEs should include all the sciences, at least one MFL, at least one academic humanity (probably History, maybe Music) plus English and Maths. But at academic schools, this is hardly worth worrying about: that's what people do anyway. The head of a grammar school isn't interested in the siren voices of "this diploma is 'worth' 4 GCSEs" or "Music Technology is like Music but more interesting" because he knows that, for his pupils, it's simply not true.

But candidates who apply to top-flight universities with weird not-quite-GCSEs, not including MFL or standard sciences, followed by not-quite-A Levels or A Levels in almost-but-not-quite subjects are starting on the back foot and probably won't get quite the same grades either. So a truiple deficit: the GCSEs aren't as compelling, the A Levels aren't as compelling and the ultimate grades won't be as good.

MmeBlueberry · 11/09/2010 16:35

The need for a GCSE in MFL is making a comeback. You have to look at the general entrance requirements for the institutions you are interested in. Some require a GCSE, and some will make you do a class in uni. Others don't care (yet).

It's a good thing to do a language, though.

MmeBlueberry · 11/09/2010 16:37

Excellent post, Tokyo.

smugmumofboys · 11/09/2010 16:43

I couldn't agree more with you tokyo.

However, what goes on in many state schools just doesn't reflect that reality and too many teachers are competing for students at GCSE. Ultimately, many parents can't see the point of a language or just don't do their homework (the 'It's her choice at the end of the day' brigade) so students aren't getting the message.

Oh, and languages are hard.

MmeBlueberry · 11/09/2010 16:52

I think there are quite a few people who believe that GCSE subjects and grades don't count - all that counts are the A2 grades. You see posts about it on mumsnet all the time, sometimes reinforced by posters who claim to be admissions tutors.

The reality is that you have to check with the actual admissions tutors that will be reviewing the future UCAS forms. Each university, and each department is different. There is no 'one size fits all'. A lot of the information is unpublished as well, so not something that you can use a Google search to support your point of view.

The safe thing to do, to keep all options open, is to include a MFL in your GCSE portfolio, and then do your damnedest to get an A.

Having some capability in French/German/Spanish is an important lifeskill, so worth doing anyway.

ampere · 11/09/2010 16:55

-sigh-

Our comp tries to make the parents of DC who insist on quitting their MFL at the end of Y9 write a letter to the Head acknowledging that the move may scupper their DC's chances of getting into uni!

I hope my DS will buck our family trend and do better than we did!

It does amuse me a bit when so many people are saying 'A MFL is an absolute must to GCSE/everyone should be forced to study one' etc- who overlook the fact that languages are difficult! I have CSE grade 2 in French having studied it at a grammar school for 5 years where we all got at least 7 'O' levels!

webwiz · 11/09/2010 17:20

My DCs school had made a language GCSE compulsory unless in the lowest pathway. They have a fabulous language department and have just become a language college as their second specialism. None of mine have found languages difficult at all and I don't think they are alone in this at their (non selective)school. DD1 got an A in french, DD2 got As in French and German and DS in year 9 is doing very well. Most of the staff are native speakers and are massively enthusiastic (and a bit bonkers as well!)

I think languages are in a downward spiral which is a shame, one of the local schools that is much better than my DCs for languages expects everyone to take french/german in year 9(with As in year 10 and A2 in year 11)and they get excellent results.

dilemma456 · 11/09/2010 19:16

I think they should be compulsory as they are useful for so many degree courses and just generally in life.

I did History and we had to study original sources in German and Italian. I only have GCSE German and had never previously studied Italian but found my knowledge of French also at GCSE and my very rudimentary Spanish helped. I did opt out of the Japanese History module though Grin

Also languages are just useful in life. I have to use French and German from time to time for work and DP uses a variety including Swedish, German, French, Spanish and enough Serbo-Croat, Urdu and Punjabi to be polite. Obviously he hasn't got qualifications in all of those but knowledge of a foreign language is helpful in learning and understanding others

alison60 · 13/09/2010 11:35

OK, managed to change my nickname to something readable.

Thanks for all the responses to this - really incredibly helpful. I have another, similar query - I will start another thread for it.

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