Sixth Form Admission Policies

[MeganMog]

I have a DD who will need to apply for sixth form college next year. She'd like to go to our local sixth form college, which has a good reputation and range of courses. I had a look at the admissions policy, and was a little surprised.

All pupils at 5 named local secondary schools are guaranteed a place (fine, no problem with that).

After that, admissions are on a 'first come, first served' basis - with applications being made in person at the college on a specified date. I've heard from DD that people will be queueing from 4am to be sure of getting a place, and although very capable of queuing, am not particularly keen to do so, especially if it will be a wet and windy night!

The college is popular and gets applicants from a wide distance, including neighbouring counties. However as we live in a nearby village, it's the only sixth form that DD can get to on public transport.

I will queue all night if I have to - but despite the college saying on their website that this is the fairest way, I don't agree. However am interested in other opinions, and to know if this is a common way of doing it at sixth form?

I would ask the Local Authority what they believe is the 6th form provision that your daughter should be attending. If it is not the local college then this needs to be investigated properly.

Assuming that the local college is the nearest available 6th college then it may be worth asking the college why they are not prepared to expand the list of 5 to those other secondary schools which are local. It might also be worth asking what the minimum entry requirements are for the course your daughter wants to study. If there are minimum requirements why is it first come first serve, so to speak?

Well I queued for 4 hours for cod on axbox 360 - beginning my wait at 3am.......

realise that thats not at all relevent but am willing to travel and queue for you

I will try that thanks, although when I was talking to someone from the Local Authority over DS's infant application, at the same time I did ask why the college had this policy, and they just said that admission was down to the college, and nothing to do with them .

The feeder schools, if everyone went would take up about half of the places, leaving 700 or so available to other applicants, which in theory should be plenty, but I have heard stories of people not getting in. DD is currently at private secondary (after state infant and junior) the fees have been a real stretch and I always anticipated she would go to the local sixth form. The college is the nearest to us at 3 miles. The next nearest are 5.5 and 6 miles away, but without public transport that would get you there in time for 9ish.

I was expecting the criteria to be the feeder schools, then distance or living within the same borough (or a combination of both). They have academic and non-academic courses, and each course has a minimum requirement, so I think people just change course if they don't get what they need for their first choice.

I was assuming that as education is not currently compulsory at sixth form that no provision has to be made for my DD - is that the case? Also what has happened about the raising of the school leaving age - is that still going ahead?

nickschic - I may come back to you

She is currently starting Year 10, and would be applying next September (2011) to start in September 2012. She did originally attend one of the feeder schools, but was so unhappy that I took her out - we don't have enough savings/salary to pay to keep her on at her current school in the sixth form, even if we wanted to.

So if they raise the school leaving age, then presumably they will be looking at their admission policies before then anyway.

I plan to go along this year to try get a feel for how many people are queuing and if I need to be investing in a tent .

I've never heard of queing for a college place. DD2 and DD3 went to differnt colleges and they bothapplied,then had interviews where thet talked about the courses they wanted to do. They then were both sent conditinal offers and were given certain grades they had to get at GCSE to get a confirmed place.

I think that once they have a place at the college, they then go for an interview to discuss courses, and get conditional offers. The website does mention a waiting list, and that they won't interview anyone on the waiting list, unless a place becomes available.

It's hard to know, or find out, how oversubscribed they may be. I can't see why they just can't administer applications online like the schools do - but it seems that they want people to queue up in the early hours, when there's no real need for them to do so.

Our 6th form college is the same. Priority to those in the borough. Everyone else allocated a place on a 1st come 1st served basis. Application forms only posted, not on-line. So cue (excuse pun) lots of year 11s having the day off school, their parents having the day off work, grabbing the postman when he arrives and child filling in the form en route as parent breaks speed limit to deliver form to college before everyone else.

Priority to those in the borough would be an improvement for us, as we are in the borough. But for those that aren't I think it's just silly to do it this way - and a waste of so many people's time. I presume that each college is totally independent and therefore can manage admissions however they please? Or is there some kind of body that oversees them?

Here's how they do it in Cambridge

Some other sixth form entry requirements:
Godalming
Farnborough

I think having a partner school, interviewing and then making offers, followed by a waiting list is the normal method.

That link to Farnborough's policy is interesting -when DD went to Farnborough in 2006 they held interviews and they were told that their motivation & attitude would be taken into account. The 2009 school admissions code specifically states that this is now not allowed, and I see that they no longer mention it. BUT the Admissions code also specifically says that interviews must not be held at all, so it looks like they are adhering to one part of e Code but not another.

Sorry but all schools and colleges around here interview for Sixth form. Are you sure this admission code applies to Sixth Forms, and I would have thought a chat about whether the students knows what the subjects involve, if they are the right ones for their ambitions etc. are necessary at this stage.

Obviously it will affect whether someone is offered a place; as there will be limitations (staff, rooms, timetabling) on how many people can gain a place on a given course.

The Admissions Code applies to schools, including those with Sixth Form entry. It does not apply to Sixth Form Colleges. They are Further Education establishments, not schools.

I agree that it seems the most sensible way of choosing, to have students who really want to be there, but the code says:

Applications for Year 12 entry and transfer from Year 11...

1.42... "As with admissions at compulsory school age, preference, whether expressed by parents or children, must be met (where possible) and the admission authority must act in accordance with this Code"

1.44..."Schools must not interview children or their families for entry to Year 12, although meetings can be held to provide advice on options and entry requirements for particular courses.
Entry must not be dependent on attendance, behaviour record, or perceptions of attitude
or motivation".

Apparently there are rumours that the Condems are thinking of abandoning the Admissions Code, but it is still published on the DCSF website, which states "All statutory guidance and legislation published on this site continues to reflect the current legal position unless indicated otherwise." though it also states it may not reflect current Government policy.

Make of that what you will....

That explains it for Farnborough, then, but not for the schools in mummytimes' area if they really do still interview.

Well I think what students call interviews must be meetings to give advice. Of course in addition most sixth forms give internal candidates a place if they get the course required grades. And most of the external candidates come from Private schools, and as the leaving age increases there will be less room to admit them to.

There are as usual grey areas and when is a discussion about course options (allowed) an interview in reality (not allowed) is one that will always raise eyebrows in school sixth forms. As PRH says 6th form colleges and FE Colleges have their own admission arrangements.

As far as I am aware there is no intention to completely drop the admissions code for schools, though no doubt as for every government they will tinker to come up with a better system. If for no other reason that they have to ensure that admission arrangements at sixth forms in schools, sixth form colleges and FE Colleges are sensible when it comes to the time when all pupils have to remain in education or work / apprentiship until 18.

The Greenwich judgement was about the fact that Local Authorities could not give priority to pupils living in their LA, over pupils living in another LA. It was specifically, I believe, about schools in the maintained sector and as such 6th form colleges fall outside that definition.

Whilst one might suspect that if it went to law that a similar judgement might be made for a 6th form college or FE College but I am not aware of any such judgement.