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Original poster

D of E failure

37 replies

Jopeg · 17/07/2010 18:19

DD and her group recently failed the expedition section of D of E despite completing the course and not getting lost. They were told "they knew why" they had failed, but they claim not to. Lack of teamwork was mentioned, but they got on fine. Anyone experienced failure or any experience with this?

OP posts:

GypsyMoth · 17/07/2010 18:26

my DD failed the practice,but last weekend passed the real thing despite getting ost...they righted themselves and got back under their own steam 40 mins late i think,but they did it

they must have some clue? DD failed the first one as her team memebers decided to sit down and not move til the teachers came to get them....onlydd and her friend decided to complete the walk alone....so would fail for leaving group behind (girly girls who couldnt hack it)dd moved groups after that as they dropped out anyway.

GypsyMoth · 17/07/2010 18:27

did someone use a mobile? or use money?

our teachers mentioned one group failed for buying an ice cream from a van,the examiner was watching!!

whiteflame · 17/07/2010 18:32

Well, i would think that they can insist on being told why they failed - "you know why" wouldn't hold up if you/they wanted to push it. Surely there must be some kind of formal report to the candidates/teachers?

And I guess you'll find out whether they actually know why they failed, when you tell them your intention to pursue it

rainbowfizz · 17/07/2010 18:54

when i was at (all girls) school one group (not mine I hasten to add ) failed because in the evening they went to visit a boys tent!

muddleduck · 17/07/2010 19:58

I've only know groups to fail if they either didn't complete the distance or were caught cheating.

my instinct is that your DD know more than she is letting on, but you can easily call her bluff by saying you will speak to the teacher on her behalf.

Original poster

Jopeg · 17/07/2010 20:40

We are supposed to be getting a full report but all the parents have complained, DD has mentioned a couple of things that they did that didn't please but nothing in itself that would cause them to fail. A couple of the parents met the leaders when they picked them up and were told it would be "in the report".

I would have thought it would have been out and out failure to reach the end or being terribly late back, alcohol, smoking, smuggling boys in or cheating, none of which appears to be the case.

OP posts:

GypsyMoth · 17/07/2010 20:41

was it bronze jo?

rainbowfizz · 17/07/2010 20:59

Did they leave rubbish at the campsite?

prh47bridge · 17/07/2010 21:04

It is also a failure if they buy supplies en route beyond that permitted by the rules, accept a lift, use public transport, split up or fail to go through one or more of the check points agreed with the leaders. That's just a few of the reasons - there are plenty more.

What are the things they did that didn't please?

SleepingLion · 17/07/2010 21:15

At our school, we fail groups who break the rules in some way - alcohol/smoking/visiting tents of opposite sex - but also those who are perceived not to have acted in the 'spirit' of DofE, and poor team work might come under this umbrella. Did the group split up at any point? did one member of the group walk a long way ahead? were struggling members of the group supported?

Lack of awareness of the country code might also lead to failure - leaving gates open, dropping litter, generally being careless of the surroundings. But we would always explain to a group why they had failed - the Gold groups we took to Snowdonia recently were debriefed at the end of the expedition by their assessors.

mumeeee · 17/07/2010 21:22

DD3 recently did her Bronze D of E they were actually allowes to buy a cold drink and ice cream at a shop they past on thier walk, It was an extreamly hot day. They did have thier rucsack with all thier supplies including water,

Original poster

Jopeg · 17/07/2010 21:28

Silver

They didn't split up or anything like that, they were the 'strongest walkers and best navigators' according to the leader. They were made to walk further one day because they had not been out long enough (although they had covered the mileage) I think they were pretty dispirited by this and when asked how they were at a check point wrote s**t and then crossed it out, they got in trouble for that but let off (it was the first day). They lost one of their route cards and were told that was 'littering' I expect they were noisy as well. They went through all the check points.

OP posts:

hocuspontas · 17/07/2010 21:32

I expect they do know why they failed! IME splitting from the group is a common reason - lots of practice expeditions 'fail' on that.

SleepingLion · 17/07/2010 22:01

The only thing which stands out particularly from what you say is the mileage/required number of hours - it used to be that the expedition simply required groups to cover a certain number of miles but now it is a time requirement: groups need to spend a set number of hours on 'planned activity' away from the campsite. This now has to be a combination of walking and fulfilling the expressed aim of their expedition - so looking at the effects of tourism on footpaths in Snowdonia, for example. It is the time that is key rather than the distance. However, their leader should have picked up that their route was not going to be long enough (in terms of time) beforehand when s/he checked their route cards.

The attitude may have been a problem but we expect our groups to be pretty grumpy when it's hot and they're knackered!

Unless there is something your DD isn't telling you, it sounds like she was unlucky with her assessor, TBH! The only thing DH and I can think of is that they maybe crossed a railway line where they shouldn't have done or something else like that that they may not have even realised was wrong, iyswim.

Greenpatch · 18/07/2010 20:42

It is all a bit mystifying, I can't think that if there was one main reason why they weren't told it was because... and if it was lots of little reasons then I think they should have passed as they walked and navigated well.

You can't really fail D of E for getting on the leader's nerves can you?

poppincandy · 20/07/2010 20:57

Jopegs - Did you find out anymore from the school/dd?

Greenpatch · 24/07/2010 20:38

Sorry not much time to get on computer lately and I have name changed. We got the report, nothing on it the girls hadn't really mentioned (not of significance anyway) the main reason they gave was their approach to safety, basically the filling in of the check point thing to say they were OK, they put things like Who do you think? when asked who they were and "closer to death than to the campsite" when asked how they were!

The thing is I don't think it is a requisite of the award that they fill these things in anyway, I can see that it was rather foolish.

All the parents have complained in one way or another and one set have seen the headmistress. She is allowed to do Gold next year but not sure she wants to now.

domesticsluttery · 24/07/2010 20:42

I'm glad they didn't fail us for visiting boys' tents when we did D of E, that was the high point of the expeditions!

Greenpatch · 24/07/2010 20:59

kritur · 25/07/2010 10:45

I'm a dofe unit leader and just got back last night from DofE gold with my 6th form group. We don't fail them for being grumpy or cheeky, on day 3 mine were a complete nightmare and I could have cheerfully murdered a couple. Seems a bit harsh to me really. It's a shame the report hasn't really highlighted what went wrong. In my school we only have 14 kids doing gold so I know who they all are and we don't need to have them sign at checkpoints! I do find in bigger schools where there are lots and lots of kids doing DofE that more tend to fail.

Greenpatch · 25/07/2010 15:31

I think seems a bit harsh sums it up really! There were four groups so I'm guessing about 16, not an enormous group.

I think they did get grumpy at times but not in front of the leaders they were described each day as being in 'high spirits'!

mumeeee · 26/07/2010 12:10

That sems a bit harsh. I don't think DD3 had to fill in anything at check points but she was only doing the bronze and it was a small group.

muddleduck · 27/07/2010 13:20

That seems harsh.

Assuming that they did this more than once then I'd have expected them to be warned early on that this was not appropriate and then given the chance to fill them in properly.

BTW I'm assuming that they did actually give their group name and arrival times on the cards as these can be vital in the case of a group getting lost.

Greenpatch · 29/07/2010 20:46

Errr

Who are you?

Who do you think!

mumeeee · 31/07/2010 15:03

I've just spoken to DD3. I was wrong. They did have check points and had to sighn in properly. They were told they would fail if they didn't sign in.

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