St Leonards School, St.Andrews

If no-one comes on here to help with your question on geographical spread then the school should be able to answer that. They should have all these statistics to hand.

I asked that very question of our (Edinburgh) school and they were able to tell me 80% of day pupils lived within a 10 mile radius of the school.

The children at my DDs school who have been there since P1 mostly live fairly near school. The ones with hour long commutes tend to have joined in upper primary or secondary.

My DDs went there and we lived just outside the town. My niece attends at the moment and she lives about 20 miles away. It definitely draws children from all around fife as there are several buses used to bring them in. That said both my DDs had loads of friends there we just had to be prepared to drive them around a bit.

Also on deferring I think they wound go with that. My DD went into the year below when she started as there was no room on the year she should have been in. It worked out wonderfully for her as she is a December birthday.

Would go I mean. She started inY6.

Ask very specific questions around the curriculum - it’s very different to curriculum for excellence and doesn’t suit every child.

In recent years there have been attainment issues caused by the ‘fluid’ nature of the PYP. I know a current L4 parent who is at their wits end with how far behind their child i a with core subjects.

Really do your homework on that area.

If you aren’t too worried about the academics or sports facilities and just want a nice environment and families then it’s fine.

Typo “….thier child is with core subjects,”

Further typo. Must stop posting so late! “their” 🤪🙃

Deferring until 6 seems a bit unnecessary? I deferred my Jan born DC so they started at 5.5y not 4.5y, and it has been brilliant. They've loved p1 and come on so far. He's now 6.5y going into p2, and I can't imagine him just starting now - he's ready for SO much more complex stuff already (and receives it both there and at home).

We are at a state primary in Fife too with a real mix of abilities and needs and it's been amazing. The ethos and atmosphere of the school is truly lovely, my DS loves going and there are some great kids in his class. The teachers and management are excellent and honestly I don't see it as a bad thing that my DS has some kids in his class that have additional needs and require a lot of support.

Personally, I wouldn't consider private for primary as long my DC were happy and thriving in the state sector. I'd have thought this would be the case in a school in St Andrews of all places? It's a very affluent town with a lot of engaged middle class parents.

Sorry I don't mean any of that to come across as a lecture or chippy (I'm not against private schooling or trying to meet the needs of very bright children etc) but just surprised that in St Andrews the catchment school isn't up to scratch.

We moved from St Andrews to Cellardyke when I was in p2, I can only remember 1 girl that ever went to St Leonards. Sadly I don't think she even really had any friends in Anster.

The whole school follows the IB curriculum. PYP is the IB primary years programme followed from P1-6. MYP is the the IB middle years programme followed from P7 - F4 with some of the GCSE syllabus cantilevered clumsily in. The IB diploma is taught in F5-6.

As above, and very respectfully you need to do your own homework (aside from what the school tells you) into the implications of this curriculum there are huge pluses and minuses. It is massively different to curriculum for excellence which isn’t without its own issues but when well taught is more robust in the core subjects.

The PYP is child led and very unstructured therefore it doesn’t suit every child especially at an early stage. It’s also therefore contributed to the aforementioned attainment issues in core reading , writing and maths. One child left after unresolved bullying and entered the state system and was advised to go back a year!

At the other end the IB diploma is ‘sold’ by SLS as being suitable for every child which is an extreme disservice. Again look into to it, but other schools that offer the IB diploma only put their top 15-20% of pupils to it and offer highers or a levels for the rest. Other schools that only offer the IB are highly academically selective which SLS isn’t. This is not only dishonest but tampers with children’s futures. The reason around half the year group leave and go to Madras for F5. At this stage there is an influx of international students who aren’t community minded and creates a very them and us issue with the existing children.

Even for the very bright it can lead to disappointment- one specific Oxbridge level candidate I know did very well in the IB (top 10% of the year group) and didn’t get their first choice university (not oxbridge) after the work that goes into the IB (no life for two years including holidays) that’s beyond being let down by the school.

The university run very reasonably priced sports classes for primary aged children! No need to pay £10k per year for them. The continued lack of investment in the schools own sport facilities tells its own story…

As before if you’re looking for a sanitised environment and not much more then it’s fine but know what your buying. I would recommend at looking at any another private junior school anywhere to give you a benchmark as the gap in the offering is huge.

I’m pro independent schooling and as you can gather quite knowledgeable about it. There needs to be value for money. SLS when compared to other private junior schools just doesn’t stack up.

Have you considering a placing request to somewhere like Kingsbarns primary? It has an excellent reputation and I know other placing requests have been successful there.

Best of luck.

Hello Catsordogs - you give some really useful insights re SLS. We considered it a few years back but due to covid and other reasons, did not relocate. Our 12 year old daughter is bright and does very well at school. Do you have any update on how the new Head at SLS is doing? When you say sanitised, do you mean the kids are covered in cotton wool or what? What other independent schools would you recommend? We like the IB. Not sure about curriculum for “excrement” as I have sometimes heard it called or indeed the perception of Highers these days. Where would you send your child to have a good chance of entry to top unis in the UK/US/Canada? Thank you

In haste I have heard very little about the new head. Maybe a sign in itself who knows.

the only other private school in the area is High School of Dundee and I did see a post about a pupil last year going to uni in the US so you’d assume some experience there.

Eyes open for the IB. Having seen it first hard it’s all consuming for two years and isn’t the passport into uni the school make out. Bright kids still don’t get what they need. Like it or not Highers often suit better.

sorry rushing atm but don’t want to forget to reply.

I'd second the comment about lack of investment in sports facilities. I have one child at prep and one at senior, I attend a lot of their away sports matches and last year we did a lot of visits to senior schools before choosing, so we've seen a lot to compare. St Ls sports facilities are the worst by a long way.

@WisteriaHysteria22 I have one child doing IB and another doing Highers and from what I can see, the pro/con of IB is that students are forced to keep a broad curriculum right up to S6. My son did 5 highers in S5 and is currently doing three Advanced Highers in S6 (all sciences). My daughter is doing the IB diploma and has to do 6 subjects; one has to be a language, one has to be an arts based subject, one has to be a science and she has to continue with maths - so there is a lot less freedom to narrow your subject choices to focus on areas you are most interested in. There are also other elements to the IB diploma such as service and personal projects which are compulsory part of the programme. I hear people say that IB is a better preparation for university as it is so multi-faceted but if your child is not a generalist, it may not suit them.

I totally agree with the point made above that PYP (the primary years programme) is not directive enough to ensure that the core English and Maths skills are robust and for that reason, I would avoid it.

Also, many international schools who do the IB diploma do not do the MYP (the middle years programme S1 to S3) because again, it is not robust enough to prepare them for the academic rigour of the IB Diploma programme in S5 and S6.

hello LittleBay
A couple of years back we visited St Leonards several times and initial impressions were very good. Beautiful place, fabulous site and facilities as we perceived. We've probably thought about it too much but we do wonder how challenged the students are? From looking at this year's IB results, it seems that the high percentage obtaining wonderful results is skewed because they now seem to channel a significant number of less able students to do the more vocational IB. Also, we sat in on the webinar last year and were hugely disappointed by the 6th form Careers lead. Despite Covid and all the zooms we have all had to do, the person concerned was unable to perfom professionally in front of a camera. Not only that, we felt there was a distinct lack of drive/versatility/dynamism coming from her. Given your experience, what is the university entrance support like in the school? If you have a bright child who wants to go to an Ivy League university in the States, do you see that happening at St Leonards? We love St Andrews and want to give our kids the best rounded educational opportunities we can. What are the opinions on here of Madras College? Thank you so much to anyone who may be able to shed further insights.

My children went to St L’s. One of them went from 5 -18 and it was a colossal mistake for our family. The bullying problems were significant and unaddressed to the point one of our children had to have therapy, we didn't know about the underlying bullying at that point and then it all came out and the school did V little. My eldest did IB and it was a disaster for most of his year group... Many ending up at college and doing highers and reapplying. My son went to uni and is v happy but the IB was not for the rest of our children and added to the bullying issues, we changed them to another independent school where they have thrived.
The school felt very clique, with parents being friends with senior staff members on social media, which was wholly unprofessional, in my opinion.
I appreciate the school has undergone changes but I would be concerned that the bullying that my ds experienced is still an underlying issue.
I have happy, confident children now and trust in the school they attend, something we lacked at St Ls.
We only stayed there so long because our eldest did not want to move, looking back it was a huge mistake.

I'd also consider asking the drop out rate when children hit ‘exam years’. During my eldest’s time the drop out rate was huge, with children flocking to Madras or Dundee high. I think the IB only system St Ls has adopted is a clever marketing ploy ‘ best IB school in Scotland ‘ yadda yadda.
During our extensive time there I can't recall any children going to Ivy league unis in the states, any children who did go to the states for uni had American parents?
As I say, I appreciate the school has undergone changes but personally, I wouldn't recommend the school to anyone. My eldest didn't leave a confident well rounded individual- he left with v little support from the IB co coordinator, a bag of nerves and stressed to the max.
IB did help with his first year of uni as he worked independently fine, as he had gotten used to independent work with the hands off approach in senior year. I don't expect my children to be babied but even the most perfect teenagers require some sort of guidance.
May work for some, didn't work for my children. Loved the early years my eldest had under some fab teachers who were old school firm but fair.
Have not looked back since we made the move geographically to send our kids to a different independent school. Huge upheaval and worth every single grey hair to see the difference it made.

Oh and I also forgot my youngest actually repeated their first year there as we were told that they were going to struggle in the next year and were behind other pupils. This infuriated my husband as they had 3 diff teachers in their first year due to staffing change and our bright, lovely 5 year old lost all confidence.
So they got an extra year of fees out of us for their lack of impetus in sorting any issues out earlier.... We were approached about this 6 weeks before the end of their first year?!
I kick myself looking back, but I think I had an inferiority complex as I felt v much on the outside of the social circle that St Ls seemed to be.
Our youngest is now excelling at their ‘ new’ school and exceeds all targets.
I don't know if it's changed but their policy of sending reports out on the last day of term just as the office was closing, was also a bug bear. If there were any issues you wanted to address, school was closed and you would have to wait until after the holidays! Totally ridiculous.

Hi TearsandLaughter Thank you very much for so much info about your experience of the education at St Leonards. Would it be fair to ask you if your children attended in very recent years or are we talking about 5-10 years ago say?

Hi within the last 5 years! Hope that helps!

I'd also say the turnaround of staff as head of junior school in the last 5 years is pretty significant. One head teacher left v quickly into their posting.... V unusual for an independent school in such a lovely part of the world, who had v close ties to the area! Rumour was at the time that they ruffled feathers with some of the parents who held a lot of influence ( aka donors ) and didn't fit their ‘ christian’ values. V disheartening as they seemed very good. Rumour unconfirmed, I wasn't in the clique.