Concern about teenage knife crime after Amen Teklay verdict

[Anonmom123]

So the teenager who killed Amen Teklay was found not guilty of murder.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3eyywlv3djo

This is a desperately sad case of Glasgow teenagers joining or forming gangs, seemingly acting out some kind of gangster fantasy, selling weed, buying weapons online and starting a tit-for-tat feud. Resulting in a shocking death of a young man on Glasgow’s streets.

But the ‘not guilty’ verdict yesterday was also shocking. I wasn’t on the jury so not party to the evidence presented in court, but it seems that as both parties had weapons, the defence case of self-defence was accepted. This sets a dangerous precedent does it not? Will impressionable young men see the verdict as legitimizing their own illegal actions? Can a similar self-defence claim be made by other gangs? What about organised crime groups with firearms? I am genuinely worried about the repercussions of the not guilty verdict.

Amen Teklay’s family have issued a statement about reflection and what we as a society can do to reduce knife crime. That statement was dignified and measured, despite their obvious grief.

This is a genuine post by a concerned Glasgow parent. I live locally and have discussed the case with my teenagers. But also have seen impressionable teenagers been drawn to trouble, and want to do all I can to prevent others following suit. I have seen discussions on other forums descend into outpourings about immigration and race. Please, I’m looking for constructive respectful discussions on how we as a community can reduce or prevent knife crime.

I share your concerns about this.

I would also add the case has many similarities with the Kayden Moy murder that 3 youths were recently convicted of.

In both cases both the victim and perpetrators were involved in gangs, a fact that has, in my opinion, not been reported enough.

Young people need to understand the dangers of becoming involved in this culture.

I believe the self-defence argument came into play here because there was evidence the victim was armed and actively looking for the perpetrator(s), whereas the Kayden incident was the opposite.

To be clear none of them deserved what happened but we need to get back to educating youth on the dangers again.

Over the past few years there has been a dramatic rise in gang violence in Glasgow, this has a clear link to deprivation and poverty with all the social effects they cause.

In my opinion we need to bring back the Violence Reduction Programme that the police ran around 20 years ago, this was a forward thinking scheme which treated violence as a health issue that was so successful it has been studied by law enforcement/governments worldwide.

Completely agree.

The boy who was murdered in Maryhill was battered badly a few times in the lead up to his death yet no police action was done and then he was murdered.

The boys are free and will no doubt continue to batter, stab and potentially then kill another person.

The softly approach taken by our current government is wholly inadequate and really must take some blame as this wouldn't happen in other countries - one can stab another person and be let out even if found guilty ( I'm talking now about the person on the east coast who went on to murder an innocent boy in Edinburgh who was pleasing for his life).

Thank you, I haven’t heard about this Violence Reduction Programme (I didn’t live in Scotland 20 years ago) but will read up on it.

The lure of gangs is complex, I can see it linked to deprivation and lack of purpose in young men, also in creating a sense of ‘belonging’ and identity. Social media must play a part too in glamorizing gang life.

In London it seems that teenage gangs are often recruited by organised criminals gangs to run errands, peddle drugs etc. There wasn’t mention in the media reports of a link but surely 14 year old boys must have contacts further up a chain before they can source lifts in cars, drugs to deal, etc.

Proper funding for crime prevention, education and youth groups must be prioritized. But legal processes are needed too, to prevent escalation of violence seen in both these cases.

It's not just that it holds appeal for boys who are looking for somewhere to belong, they are also actively groomed by gang elders, and often targeted for recruitment precisely because of their vulnerability.

@Meeplemakeglasgow In my opinion we need to bring back the Violence Reduction Programme that the police ran around 20 years ago, this was a forward thinking scheme which treated violence as a health issue that was so successful it has been studied by law enforcement/governments worldwide.

I can find links to current programmes run in various places - is this a specific one, and do you have any links please?

The difference was it was coupled with strong deterrents whereas nowadays individuals can stab others and not receive jail.

Yes, I am still appalled that somebody can purchase an illegal weapon, carry it on the streets, stab and kill someone without a custodial sentence. Is this a flaw in the Scottish legal system? If so, it needs to be be dealt with otherwise I fear it sets a precedence.

There needs to be clear deterrents to violent knife crime, but also for the carrying, brandishing and displaying on social media.

I think there also needs to be meaningful control over where and how knives are sold. Anonymous online deliveries supply and profit from these knives. If there was only licensed sellers, how much of an inconvenience would it be to chefs, etc?

Young boys should not be killed by knives on our streets, on a trip to the beach, etc.

The police need some robust stop and search rights - no reason needed, any dubious looking individual, no excuses. I’d support fines going to the parents/responsible adult too but I doubt that’d be popular.
But ultimately Glasgow has far bigger issues. Teen gangs are a threat to other teen gangs. We don’t have enough police presence to make the city centre safe for law abiding citizens, never mind deal with delinquent kids!

The scale of criminal exploitation of teenage boys is shocking. They are groomed by gangs and given drugs, alcohol, vapes and then used to carry drugs, steal. They are attractive to the gangs because they are often in the care system, come from impoverished or troubled families so are vulnerable.

not saying this is true in this case, but they then end up addicted to substances, carrying weapons and with horrendous criminal records before they reach their 16th birthdays. There aren't many legal options - can't go to jail until 18 so it's a tag or secure residential accommodation. The tags don't keep them out of trouble - by this point they're in fear for their lives to will continue to do what the gangs ask despite it racking them up another load of charges

it takes lots of cash in programmes to sort out such extensive problems and needs early intervention to prevent the recruitment. The system tries but it's all too underfunded, stretched and too much too late.

While the grooming and exploitation of teens is an issue and does happen it is an absolutely tiny percentage of children involved in Glasgow gangs/violence who are affected.

The main reasons are cultural, there are families going back generations now who have all been involved in certain gangs and pass this on to their offspring there way most families pass on sports teams.

There is also the social factor, if a child grows up in an environment where violence or the threat of violence is expected (and often associated with social prestige) then they are likely to modify their behaviour to fit in with the peer group.

Protection is also a factor, a youth who is known as part of the local gang believes they are less likely to become a victim of violence in their own area and also fear being a solitary target from other areas.

Despite all the headlines the ‘Young Team’ culture in Glasgow is much more of a threat that any ‘County Lines’ problems.

I'm just reading that sexual crimes have increased 48 per cent on the last decade.

It's really time the government must stop the softly approach to sexual and physical violence. For example letting charged rapists out on bail.

The softly softly approach is the issue. See also schools. When teens hear that nothing will happen (oooh, a 3 day exclusion, like they’re at all bothered) then they will batter teachers and kids to their heart’s content. My child was assaulted at school many times. The attacker would get a temporary exclusion which gave my child a welcome break from being terrified and permanently on edge, but then the bully would be back and know that they couldn’t get another exclusion immediately so they’d have a full week of doing whatever they want to everyone with no consequences.

The police were no better. This child was charged with assault day in day out but that just meant a letter home to their mum. The police admitted they were powerless.

Worse than that, if there are no consequences the well behaved kids will start acting up. Why wouldn’t they? If the consequences of misbehaving is a hot chocolate and a cosy chat with the head, why wouldn’t they?

So why have we got this policy? The Scottish government is trying to ape the Norwegian prison system of rehabilitation over everything. This system works in Norway where they are utterly loaded and can afford the 10 people to one offender it takes. It doesn’t work here, with one pupil support worker to 10 very troubled kids. The Scottish government saw ‘progressive’ and ‘not like England’ and ‘cheaper than having meaningful consequences’ and jumped on this policy. It’s failing so badly and the SNP will never change it because they’ll never admit the introduced a shite policy. It’s just another SNP policy no one thought the consequences through of because they’re just so stupid. They should have asked any parent whether reducing consequences for bad behaviour would increase the incidence of bad behaviour or increase it.

I’ll say it quietly but think they’re also an issue of encouraging immigration from countries where violent crime like wielding machetes is commonplace. And also dumping thousands of immigrants in certain parts of Glasgow with no incentives to integrate is going nothing for the working class people who have lived there all their lives. The decision making lanyard classes don’t have to live in these communities so couldn’t care less.

Glasgow has had issues with serious youth violence since the Victorian times. They've managed to really reduce it in the past through social interventions.

I knew someone would mention immigration. I don’t believe immigration was a factor in the crime or the verdict, nor was it a factor in the other teen knife deaths mentioned by pp. Which is why I’d asked for it not to be the focus of this discussion.

i don’t disagree on the criticism of SNP softly-softly policy though. Norway has a much lower tolerance of law breaking, and also much more resource available for therapy-based criminal rehabilitation and reeducation. Here there is no meaningful punishment but no meaningful rehabilitation.