Teacher speaks about lack of classroom support and abuse in schools

[HettyMeg]

Teacher from Inverurie talking about lack of support assistants. She's visibly upset and talks about the violence and abuse she's experienced. This is not acceptable!

Is this becoming more widespread? My child is nursery age at the moment so I am not personally knowledgeable about primaries but I have heard a few stories like this, very concerning.

www.facebook.com/share/r/1GMgQEDnpG/

I should add the ‘child’ they refer to being concerned about in this instance is the bully.

The children's reporter will just offer the bully support. It doesn't help children being hurt in any way.

You can also self refer your own child to the panel. I have heard of this done in the context of ASN where the school were failing a child. The panel can direct the LA to take certain actions.

ChatGpt has just told me that the Scottish Government is not preventing Local Authorities and schools from taking strong disciplinary action against school bullies. It seems to think that the problem lies with the schools and local authorities. It also doesn't seem to agree that the police won't take action in these situations. I attach its advice on this:

The scottish government does not allow local authorities and schools to have effective disciplinary processes in place to deal with violent bullying in schools. Is there any way a parent whose child is being bullied can bring about a change in this situation?
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That claim doesn’t really hold up. The Scottish Government does not prohibit schools or councils from using strong disciplinary measures for bullying, including violent incidents. In fact, national guidance (like “Respect for All”) expects schools to act decisively—using the full range from restorative approaches to exclusions when needed.
Where things often go wrong is inconsistent implementation, not a legal ban on discipline.
What a parent can realistically do
If your concern is both your child’s situation and the wider system, there are a few routes that can actually create pressure for change.

1. Escalate within the school and council

Start by forcing the issue onto record: Write formally to the headteacher Escalate to the Director of Education at your local authority Use the council’s complaints process Local authorities are legally responsible for school safety. If they fail to act, they can be challenged.

1. Use independent scrutiny bodies

You can bring external pressure through: Education Scotland – inspects schools and can consider concerns about leadership and safety Scottish Public Services Ombudsman – reviews maladministration after you exhaust complaints procedures These bodies don’t discipline pupils, but they can force systemic improvements.

1. Involve the police where there’s violence

If bullying includes assault, threats, or harassment: Report it to Police Scotland This shifts the issue out of “school discipline” and into law enforcement, which often triggers a much stronger response and may lead to referral into the hearings system.

1. Push for child protection action

If your child is at risk of harm, you can: contact social work directly request a child protection assessment Schools and councils have duties under child protection law that go beyond discipline policies.

1. Collective pressure (often the most effective)

One parent is easier to ignore than many. You can: organise with other parents raise the issue with Parent Councils contact local councillors or your MSP Political pressure can influence how strictly councils enforce behaviour policies.

1. Legal routes (when things are serious)

In extreme cases, you can: seek legal advice about duty of care failures pursue action if the school has not taken reasonable steps to protect your child This is a higher bar, but it can force change where systems fail. Reality check There is no single lever that forces immediate systemic change Children’s hearings and national policy focus heavily on support and inclusion, which can feel inadequate in cases of repeated violence The most effective strategy is usually layering pressure: school → council → external bodies → police (if applicable) Bottom line The issue isn’t that discipline is “not allowed”—it’s that it’s not always enforced effectively Parents can push for change, but it usually requires escalation, documentation, and persistence across multiple channels If you want, I can help you draft a formal complaint or escalation letter that’s harder for a school or council to dismiss.

The Scottish government ranks local authorities on its exclusion figures (temporary) and judges those to have the fewest most successful. Jenny Gilruth claims that there is nothing stopping schools excluding kids and there isn’t in theory but there very much is in practice.

I feel it’s ironic that there’s so much chat about safe guarding and GIRFEC and this in practice only means safeguarding the bully from any meaningful consequences and the victim can go to hell.

I'm probably as cynical as the next person, but it may be that being referred to the Children's Panel might make a difference to the attitude of some bullies and their parents and some school staff. If only a small number of them. And who knows, in some cases maybe the panel can provide some kind of help which changes the bully's behaviour. Again, I am clutching at straws because we may only have straws.

What is the effect on the school of ranking low because it has excluded some children? Does it lose out on funding or something? Or is this about school reputation / the status of the head?

I imagine it is a bit like getting a poor HMI inspection

Many are given everything - trips to McDonald's ( it was in a Moray newspaper), cinema trips, devices.

All we need is a rule that children who are physically battering others are not allowed to enter the building they are hurting them in. It's just so beyond simple and used to happen. Now it doesn't. That's the only change that is leading to so many of our young people being traumatised and leaving education because they are not safe in the building.

Also re exclusions, if a school has not done any exclusions for saying five years it is included in an hmie report as positive (regardless of the children being hurt in said school).

So schools won't want that. But if they CAN discipline, and just really don't want to, then threatening them with formal complaints to the local authority and, when that is ineffective, with legal action may be effective. Even if you have to start a legal claim against them. Why aren't more parents bringing legal claims? Is it just about cost (in which case maybe others can help out), or is it for other reasons too?

They're supposed to deal with any problems involving children, but usually problems referred by social work.

My late husband would have known more - he was a secondary teacher, but also sat on the panel. So far as I can recollect, he mainly dealt with cases of child neglect.

The police simply refuse to act. Perhaps because it would be futile. They come out with all sorts of excuses. In fact, nowadays you often cannot get past the call handler.

One time, a teenage boy threatened me with sexual violence (mutilation, not rape). I phoned Police Scotland. Call handler: "Oh, but would a boy that age understand what that means?" There was no action.

The next time I had an incident was when a boy on a part-time timetable (a favourite way for schools to deal with "difficult" pupils stopped me from leaving the car park one winter's evening.

He hadn't been in school all day, but came into the school car park with his pals as I was trying to leave at about 7 pm.

He blocked me from getting out by standing in front of the car and humping it. I tried beeping the horn, putting the lights on full beam...Nothing worked.

He ran off when I picked up my mobile phone.

When I got home, I did phone the police. This time, I pretended that my concern was for the boy...I was worried, I said, that he might get himself into serious trouble because he obviously didn't understand the significance of what he was doing: at 12/13, he was too young to know.

Could someone have a quiet word with the boy to explain? I was concerned in case he got himself into bother.

The next day, two police women came into school to interview me. They said they'd speak to the boy and his parents.

I later found out from someone at work - who'd been told this by the mother - that the boy had started to swear at the policewomen. They'd left the house with the parting shot of "We'll see you when you're 16."

These is no legal claim.

Also it's important to know that teachers often will report children being hurt by others but it's up to the local authority or HT to take any sort of action and they often don't. So it's not that 'schools don't discipline ' it's just that there's no red line anymore so children can strangle, kick,punch, pull others hair, destroy a classroom and stay in that school without any time at home.

Some years back...Around 15, I think, we still had a PT Behaviour Support at our school. (The school later saved money by combining B.S., Learning Support and Guidance into Pastoral Care.)

One of my boys complained to the P.T. B.S. that it wasn't fair that the bad boys got treats: trips out, juice and sweeties in the base, access to the Wii in the base...

"No, no. You're wrong."

"No, I'm not. [Name of notorious pupil] told us about it."

"You've misunderstood. [Name] gets treats for being good."

"Aye, but he had tae be bad first, didn't he?"

If your child is not safe at school - if they're being repeatedly beaten up and the child who is doing the beating isn't disciplined, and if appropriate excluded - then you can argue that the school is failing in its duty to take reasonable action to keep your child safe while at school. You can bring a legal claim for negligence. See the ChatGPT advice on this thread, including a particular case where the parents brought a claim and won.

Imagine being an employer. A member of your staff has a mental illness which means that he regularly sexually assaults female colleagues. You, the employer, have a chat with him occasionally and ask him to apologise, but otherwise do nothing. Do you think those female colleagues have a legal claim against you?

I'm trying not to out myself here. I had a pupil who wrecked my classroom at the age of 12 or 13. I filled up all the necessary reports - I was in middle management. Nothing was done.

Last year, as an adult, they literally got off with murder. Before anyone asks about parenting...The parent was charged with them.

Speaking of reports, laterally everything was done electronically. I'd go checking the system to see what the follow-up was, only to find that the HT had either commented 'Dealt with,' or 'Noted'.

The one good thing about the electronic system was that I could see all the reports from all departments, so that put paid to the 'Oh, s/he only misbehaves for you!' line.

The one that gave me a wry smile was the one entered by another department head.

There were screeds of reports about the behaviour of a certain pupil in his department - refusing to work, swearing at women teachers, etc. Every single one had 'Noted' as the comment from the HoD and nothing was passed to the SLT. (We had similar problems with the same pupil. I at least tried to isolate the little darling and informed the SLT. Incidentally, I was scolded by the SLT for isolating pupils. Apparently, I should have left the classroom teachers to deal with it all..)

Then the same HoD wrote a report on that pupil in which he [a rather florid faced, overweight gentleman] had been called 'Santa Claus' by the said pupil. This, apparently, had to be dealt with.

My child is profoundly autistic and non verbal. They attend a mainstream school with suitable 1:1 and 2:1 support. They have lots of friends, and have never been problematic or disruptive. The other children of all ages are kind, friendly and supportive. I often get stopped on my way in and out of school by parents who tell me how much their children love spending time with mine. The school as a whole have benefited from the funding given to them for my child as sensory and quiet spaces have been made which are available to ALL pupils should they need it, there is also an extra TA in the classroom who doesn’t always need to be over my child and can help others when close 1:1 is not necessary. The system can work very well when implemented properly. Should my child be removed from their school and be forced into a setting with violent children with completely different complex needs?

I do have experience of working with profoundly autistic children. So long as they have appropriate support, it's possible for them to have a positive experience in mainstream as has been the case with your child.

The problem nowadays is that children who simply do not behave because of bad parenting are now being noted as having 'behavioural problems' and 'SEN' when there is no real foundation for this type of labelling in their case.

Absolutely this 🙌 it dilutes how people see the severity of autism and creates hostility towards genuinely vulnerable people.

If your child is able to learn (not just the academics) and reach their potential, and does not adversely affect other pupils, then I imagine that the only likely issue is cost to the Local Authority. If there were a system of special schools, the staffing level would very probably be lower than 1:1, and it would be cheaper for them to have special facilities / equipment in place, as a number of pupils would need those.
However, it's also possible that your child might benefit - they might learn more effectively if taught by specialist teachers trained in teaching profoundly autistic children and, if appropriate, teaching an adapted syllabus.
You understandably don't want your child to be impacted by violent children. That wouldn't necessarily be the case in a special school, and the class sizes would be far, far smaller and the teachers specially trained and different policies put in place. Just guessing here, but there might well be a "time out" room where a child can calm down in a peaceful environment if upset in class.
At the moment, in many classes every child is severely adversely impacted by violent and disruptive pupils. And the teacher has to handle 30 children and has limited ability to adapt the curriculum for that one child. And there are clearly not policies in place which help teachers to maintain control and help the violent child to calm down, etc.
There are a lot of posts on Mumsnet in which parents appear to be desperate to get their child into a special school.

No because your child isn't assaulting others. No one is saying your child needs to be removed from their particular school.

That's the thing, we had those spaces, or at least more of them. The SG decided to mainstream almost all children, but without the support. All children absolutely have a right to education but imo that right is not being upheld by the presumption of mainstream - it's a direct breach of it because mainstream education isn't fit for that purpose.

I was present at a meeting in a Fife school the day the then Director of Education informed us that they were closing the special schools, but it would be fine because the staff would be moving into mainstream to lend us their expertise.

The staff did not, in fact move into mainstream. There are still some special schools in Fife, but a much smaller number and they only deal with the most profound needs.

They are already in a small class with specialist teachers, their 1:1 is an autism specialist and all adults who are in contact with my child were given additional training and up skilled before they started school. The sensory space is an extension of the library, no ‘time out’ room where they are separated.