Anyone move to Scotland from England away from family?

[arewescotlandbound]

Please tell me how it has been?

it’s a dream of ours to move to Scotland. We are looking at Aberdeenshire.

We know someone who moved there a year ago and is loving it, so we would not be completely without a safety net, but wouldn’t want to rely on them. Since they moved we have visited them a few times and it’s really stirred the feeling and desire to move.

We love the outdoors and if we move we can reduce our mortgage.

The only thing stopping us really is that we are close to our parents, and they look after our youngest so I can work part time. The childcare worries me less than leaving them behind - both sets of parents are retired.

Tell me about the good, the bad and the ugly.

In terms of getting out and about, you can roam all over the mountains. Local forests also have trails and there are various other walking spots. But what there isn’t is a network of rights of way across farm areas in the same way there are in England. So plenty of walks but not so much of the local pottering type walks on the doorstep. Also not so many country pubs to incorporate into such a walk. Those who have never lived in England may say ‘nonsense’ to this but these things exist at a much lower density to reflect the lower density population and the large estates. (And are offset by the fact you can walk in the mountains and forests)

I have the opposite where family have moved to scotland. It is a nightmare trying to meet up with them as the school holidays are different and now the children are older and have activities they don't want to miss it's harder to find times we can go away. It just takes so long to get to NE Scotland, I have done the journey by car, plane, day train, sleeper train and none of them are easy, especially with small children. Yes to all the points pp made about being a distance away from parents as they get older. The legal system is different so it can be complicated if eg a will is made in England but relating to a property in Scotland. Yes to issues with unfilled doctor vacancies in hospitals. Agree to checking for areas where all schools close on Friday lunchtime if that's not going to be compatible with work. Good luck!

Totally disagree with many comments about education being poor. The CfE is not ideal and there is always run for improvement but many people with only outside knowledge of education or exaggerated information from their own children only regurgitate the extreme stories from the press.

Scottish teachers are all highly qualified and the majority of schools are good providing excellent learning opportunities. There are many many fantastic state schools and I would recommend actually talking to special schools/ parents councils rather than listening to generic comments from people online.

OP has not mentioned her children as having additional needs so no need to talk to specialist schools. But if her children did then I would definitely say ‘stay where you are, don’t come to Scotland’. ASN provision is very poor.

People are talking about their experience of education, including children who have moved here from England being far ahead. As for the teachers being marvellous - there is the normal range of poor, mediocre to great.

You see, it’s exactly what I was saying. We have PISA results that have dropped off a cliff and the UK’s most violent classrooms by quite some way and yet there’s always some denying these FACTS so nothing gets done. It’s so demoralising!

special was a typo- should have said specific.

That is the problem I’m commenting on. People have commented on their own individual experiences which are not necessarily indicative of the majority.

I’ve taught many children who’ve moved from England and other countries ( in different authorities and schools) and there are no general indications of them being “miles ahead”. In fact some have had “gaps” due to the differences in course content.

Scottish secondary teachers are all subject specialists and degree educated. Of course some are better than others and Scottish education is not perfect but neither is English and the generalisations here are frustrating.

I’ll bow out now.

OP- there are so many positives in the Scottish highlands if you’re an outdoors family. If you’ve done research then I’m sure you’d love the lifestyle and your children would thrive. Sleeper train links to the south are also an enjoyable option

Definitely look at secondary school results if you are thinking of moving to the Highlands.

I did the opposite to you, OP, and moved from Aberdeen to the SE (albeit 17 years ago!). I travel solo with my DDs (both primary age) to Aberdeen 3-4 times a year, and it’s fine! We go by plane, and if you shop around and book far enough in advance, you can find some good fares. I am a primary teacher (trained in England), and I must admit, I am shocked by how far behind the Scottish curriculum is in primary school. There are also no EHCPs, and it is very difficult to exclude violent children.

The weather in Aberdeen is also hard going at times, although it does rain less there than the west coast, for example. The Aberdeenshire countryside is beautiful, and Deeside in particular is lovely. Stonehaven (not in Deeside) is also a nice town with good facilities. Speaking of facilities, Aberdeen’s only decent leisure centre has been demolished, and the provision of council swimming pools and leisure facilities is poor. This may be something to think about if that’s important to you.
You can’t get to many places from Aberdeen Airport, so flights abroad from there are often expensive. A lot of people I know (including my parents!) fly from Glasgow or Edinburgh, or go via Heathrow to get anywhere.

However, it really depends what your priorities are. If you aren’t bothered by weather, and want cheaper property and an outdoors lifestyle, Aberdeen could really suit you. I will never move back as we have made our life here now, but I still really enjoy visiting. 😊

Bear in mind it’s news if it gets above 20 degrees there in the summer

We're just south of Stonehaven on the coast. The winters on the coast aren't bad at all imo (at least compared to where I grew up). In the 6 years dc1 has been at primary school, the school has shut once for snow and absolutely they can walk to school all year round.

I love it here. There is loads on for the kids. Lots of places to get out into nature. Mine are 10 and 7. This year they've been paddleboarding, kayaking, swimming in the sea and sailing, all basically on our doorstep.

As for travelling to England, I think it depends on where. We have done Yorkshire and back in a day in an emergency. It wasn't "fun" but it was doable. We've done it loads for a weekend, I.e down after work on Friday and back on Sunday or Monday. We also go down to Wiltshire once a year to distant family and whilst we always stop over night now (kids love a premier inn) we have done it in a day with loads of breaks.

I actually think that people who have moved their children from the English or an overseas education system to the Scottish system are in a very good position to see how bad the Scottish system is. If your child has always been in that system, and you're constantly told that it's great and your child is doing fine, you don't realise just how poor it is and how badly your child is doing compared with children elsewhere. In addition to my DC's experience, we know a Ukrainian family who've had their child at primary school here for several years now. The mother is very frustrated that her child is doing very little at school, but is being told by the teachers that he's working terribly hard doing very difficult stuff and should just relax when he gets home. Low expectations, dumbing down and a lack of ambition for children and young people. Scotland used to have a very good education system, and I worry about how much worse things will get as over time the workforce becomes more and more dominated by people who've been so badly educated and taught to expect so little of themselves.

My husband and I immigrated to Scotland from the states almost 20 years ago and the education system is vastly different from what we experienced and the American children we know experience. No tests, really slow pace, etc. For my daughter it’s ideal - she’s autistic and a perfectionist and is thriving in school. My son gets bored, very bored. And I do wonder if he’d be happier in a different system. There’s definitely a huge issue with any sort of specialised education - no gifted education as such and very little support for anyone with additional needs. But on the whole we are happy and our kids are settled and doing well. They’re 12 and 9 though so no idea what this will mean in a decade.

Dark winters are a challenge! In the middle of winter between the short days and the fog you can go quite a while without seeing the sun, or being able to take advantage of it if you’re working. It’s a short period of time and we just lean into it with cosy nights and such and then the summer days go on forever to make up for it. I think it’s much colder in summer than England though (a plus for us!)

it’s really not easy to go swimming, even here in Edinburgh. So complicated.

Just catching up with all the replies. Thank you for the honesty.

Still totally confused!

I am worried about moving to the education system as I have both primary and secondary children. I think we probably need to do it this year as DS is in year 10 now here. I also hadn’t realised how bad the violence was. Thanks for highlighting that. I am going to contact the school and speak to them.

Our parents are supportive of the idea and don’t want to hold us back from doing what we want to do. But my DHs sibling isn’t involved much so I worry that if anything happens then we will need to be on call for that.

we love the outdoors, love a simple lifestyle and dont really venture into town now so being away from stuff doesn’t make much of a difference. At the moment we have to drive 2.5 hours to a half decent airport, and it’s a least 4.5 hours to Gatwick.

I appreciate the honesty about areas too - and am torn as we know someone close to the area we are looking at so we already will know people there (and the children will know similar aged children too). They seem so settled and happy now.

I hadn’t thought about moving from where we are, moving to somewhere cheaper, and then potentially needing to make a jump again. I think that makes it even more of a do it or don’t do it decision - we cannot afford the stamp duty to be able to rent our house in England, and cannot afford rent in Scotland for a while.

I haven’t stopped declutterring the house here yet to get it on the market. So I think it’s still niggling that we would like to move.

Year 10?! Eeeeek. That will make the schooling move particularly tough.

There was a post on here a while back about moving mid secondary exams. It wasn’t particularly positive. It’s worth sitting down and working out which year they’d be going into here and what that means exams wise. Moving from GCSEs to Nat4/5s part way through the study course is a big ask. They’re very different syllabi even for the same subjects. It’s likely to need some tutoring.

Winter weather wise, yes. Need a lunchtime walk daily to get daylight. And supplementary vitamin D. And to go out and do things week day evenings, places with good lighting like swimming pools or leisure centres.

Violence in schools has deteriorated a lot over the last ten years, but my understanding is that isn’t a Scotland only problem. Although the curriculum and exam set up in Scotland is a problem.

I assume you’ve got a plan for jobs? And are prepared for house value to not rise / potentially fall? Those are both obvious topics if you’re local but maybe not something that people further afield are aware of.

Looking slightly further ahead. If you go for Inverurie or central Alford then you’re ok with a non driving teenager. Just in Alford. On anywhere else, unless you like doing a lot of driving you’ll need to factor in driving lessons, car and insurance for teen to get around as bus service doesn’t cover what they need.

Thanks.

DS is summer born so will go into the year below from what I understand.

I will have a look for the post - was it in Scotsnet?

My DS’s family moved to a tiny village in Aberdeenshire. It was a beautiful area but took 20 minutes drive to the small local supermarket, 30 minutes drive to a slightly bigger one.
My DGS’s school were anxious for him (SEN) not to mix with other pupils and he did not have proper lessons (secondary).
The amount of fuel they used to enable DGS to go to extra curricular activities was phenomenal without the fuel for heating the home.
They miss the beautiful countryside and 24 hour shopping 7 days a week!
They moved back to England last year.
They are still 5 hours away but it’s a darn sight closer than 14 hours drive! Hence we visit more now.

The school violence issue is worse than in England because schools are basically not allowed to discipline children, even when behaviour is extremely serious. So very bad stuff can happen, and the child concerned just stays on at the school and the victims have to put up with it. That's why more parents are home-educating now.

I think you have to accept that if you move your children into the Scottish education system and a long way away from their grandparents who currently spend a lot of time with them, they will be paying a very high price for the family's new life in Scotland. And if you decide to stay in Scotland, there's a good chance that your children will move to England after university, and you won't see much of them just because of the distance.

That is nonsense that Scottish schools are not allowed to discipline children. There are many different discipline routes that can and are used and exclusions can and do happen for serious incidents. There’s so much scaremongering on this thread that is worrying.
OP please do contact individual schools and parents councils to find out about local schools in areas you’re interested in. You can also read inspection reports from HMI for the schools online.

I work in education (FE currently) and moved to the Highlands from England 5 years ago. Now have 2 DS in primary and would completely agree with the critical comments of the education system (Highlands is lagging specifically behind Scotland as a whole, Aberdeenshire might be better!) I’m no fan of the relentless high stakes English primary system, but CofE really does seem to be an excuse for some schools to run like a vague Victorian Parish school with a nature table and some well-meaning ‘topics’ every now and again.

it drives me bonkers but I pick my battles!

On other stuff - I do find it hard being far from family, but my family are scattered across England, so weirdly that helps as it’s not like I would be close to them all if we moved back down south. I also have a very supportive and close knit set of In-Laws locally which makes up for a lot.

The hardest thing for me (as we ended up moving through happenstance during lock down) was finding my place in a community where people either had deep links with the area (farming families etc) or had made a big effort to move there because they were obsessive climbers or snowboarders or whatever. You might be outdoorsy but North Scottish outdoorsy is on a whole other level! I do feel a bit of an odd one out sometimes with this vibe, but again I make it work and have made some good friends locally.

There’s all the limitations of rural living mentioned, and the seasons really are different - not just a colder/longer winter, but spring happening over about 2 weeks in late April for eg!

All this said, I do now feel at home here, being so close to nature, more in tune with the seasons and less reliant on the trappings of hyper-consumerist living really suits me. There’s also so much local creativity and sense of community - if I go to a party in England now it feels wierd not to have ceilidh dancing!

These are not the same as grammar schools and academies in England.

For example Braes High School, Alford Academy, and Aberdeen Grammar School are all exactly the same type of school. Non selective, run by the local authority, wholly funded by the Scottish Government. You are guaranteed a place in the school in your catchment area, you can put in a request to place in a different school and if there is space, you may get it, but nobody in spring is wondering where their children will end up at school. You will never be in a situation where your children are all at different schools, unless you make that choice yourself.

Ahem, on behaviour in schools https://www.strathspey-herald.co.uk/news/highland-school-abuse-and-violence-rockets-500-in-five-year-417636/

I believe part of the issue here is a recent change in how these incidents are reported, but even so it’s not a great picture. I’m sure no one is trying to scaremonger but at my schools’ parent council meeting (that’s another thing, no school governors, so have fun trying to introduce any checks and balances into school decision making) my DS’s headteacher has said on record “we are limited by council policy in how we can manage behaviour”….

If you are interested in school rankings this data set from 22/23 might be useful to you. https://datamap-scotland.co.uk/secondary-school-league-tables-by-local-authority/ The rankings show where each school places out of the 355 secondary schools in Scotland.

Bear in mind this is a very blunt tool, and with the rural nature of so many of Scotland’s schools, results are only a very small part of the success of schools. However, if you use it as a general comparator, and see how ranking have changed over the last 5 years, that gives you an idea of how the schools are performing.

If you want rural Aberdeenshire, you could do a lot worse than royal Deeside. Banchory and Aboyne academies generally fare really well. As an ex Aboyne pupil, I can attest to that. That part of the shire is such a lovely place to be. If I moved back rurally, I’d pick Aboyne, or any of the wee villages that surround it. But if I wanted a bit more going on, I’d pick Banchory. My absolute favourite would be Ballater but that’s too far from Aberdeen for me. You couldn’t pay me to live in Alford. (Sorry any Alfordonians!)

Inverurie has a lot going for it but the high school is about halfway down the rankings. In my opinion it has grown too far, too fast. It’s not the lovely little rural area it used to be. Much of it is a commuter town now, it has less of a community feel than it used to. Traffic can be a bit of a nightmare in the town. Kemnay is more like Inverurie used to be. Good school too.

Some oversubscribed schools do have waiting lists for specific (or occasionally most) year groups. So if you move into their catchment areas you could find yourself with children at different schools.

In terms of violence in school - a lot of it can be attributed to children with ASN (SEN) who are unable to cope in mainstream. A significant portion of the violence reported is dysregulated children lashing out at their teachers and teaching assistants/pupil support assistants. That is why I said don’t move here with a child with ASN as they are in large part not well supported.