Scottish education system - ‘It breaks your heart’

[Dunderheided]

Well it’s only one viewpoint; and it doesn’t certainly make for cheering reading.

In the book, published last month, Gibb said: “I take no pleasure in reading about the crisis in Scottish and Welsh education and the hundreds and thousands of children being let down by their schools. When designing their curriculum and school systems they allowed any appraisal of robust education research to be obscured by idealistic notions of how children learn. Beware the tragedy of good intentions.”

Gibb told The Sunday Times: “It breaks your heart when, you know, education systems are going down a route that the evidence says isn’t the best approach.”

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/scotland-failing-education-system-nick-gibb-robert-peal-jxfzw07tm

I’m surprised to see 40% of Scottish schoolchildren have ASN:

https://www.thescsc.org.uk/record-number-of-pupils-in-scotland-are-identified-with-additional-support-needs-as-support-falls/

There were many things interesting in the discussion I posted above, but one thing that grabbed me was the assertion that education quangos had more control over education policy than the politicians themselves.

That does seem a high percentage. It's double the percentage for England (although definition of ALN and SEN may be different).

ASN includes a broad range of issues, not just medical conditions. For example English as an additional language is one of the biggest reasons for ASN. It is such a broad term as to become increasingly unhelpful.

Ah OK - so if you added English SEN and EAL you ought to get a similar figure. I'll go check.

20.5% for EAL in England so that does make sense.

Agree, not helpful to teachers though as so broad. I teach some EAL young people (in London) who are equally fluent and articulate in two or more languages. And one of my TA colleagues was grumbling the other day about having to do more support in English classes (as in Literature) and he said 'you know it is my fifth language...' His fifth!

I will stop barging into this Scottish thread now, sorry. It caught my eye as an English friend is has two teenagers being educated in this system.

You would also need to add interrupted learning, bereavement, drugs involvement, young carers, those in care or at risk of it, teen parents….

Well once any stat nears half of all learners, there's nothing "additional" about it. It's just the general teaching experience.

and it hides the number of children who need ongoing support with learning itself rather than general support or some time being brought up to fluency in English after which they are fine.

Yes, I don't know what the view is in Scotland, but many educational commentators argue that the children of aspirational immigrants in London are a strong explanation of the good educational outcomes (even if children start with little English, they can excel later). Of course there are examples of young people from Ukraine doing that all over the country.

https://www.enlighten.scot/publication/commission-on-school-reform-behaviour-in-schools/

Report after report all saying the same thing. All will be ignored by the Scottish government.

Really interesting the way it says Scottish Government guidance ought to ‘start from the standpoint that young people have a right to an education that is not disrupted by the conduct of others’. Hell yeh!

Those who disrupt the education of others also have a right to an education and they are no more receiving it in the class they disrupt than the other children in that class are. They need specialist input in a specialist setting. It is not ‘kind’ to anyone to keep them in mainstream classrooms.

Agreed. And yet I read elsewhere this week that a specialist school is closing its doors due to the lack of referrals.

Councils have no cash so put children that need a specialist education in mainstream and pretend all is fine and dandy, because it’s cheaper that way.

I this is posted over on another thread. It’s not just Scotland:

schoolsweek.co.uk/trust-ceo-blames-school-behaviour-decline-on-dreadful-parents/

Of course it's not just Scotland, but in England we can PEX when necessary, alternative provision is available, and EHCPs can be enforced (to an extent) via the SEN tribunal.

So schools and to an extent parents have more options.

Gosh, what a nasty man. "Ruthlessly exploiting the SEN Code"? Omg, like anyone would do that for larks. That's two years of my life I'm not getting back.

As a mother of a non verbal autistic 6 year old with learning disabilities this is v v depressing to hear. We are in South Lanarkshire so I imagine that when he gets to secondary school I'll probably need to give up my job, or my husband his job, as no way will my son be able to cope in a mainstream school. He's at a base at the minute. Within a mainstream primary.

It depends whether you think the big decisions on things like education policy should be taken by people who are "experts" in that field or by politicians who most likely have no expertise in education whatsoever.

That depends whether you think the public should have a say over important matters like education policy, health provision, infrastructure through parliament/councils or not. And whether you think politicians should be able to be held accountable for failures in these areas.

In what way is Jenny Gilruth being held accountable though? TShe has been undeniably shite, 100% share as education secretary. She had presided over a steep decline in standard without even batting an eye lid and yet I can see the chronically hard of thinking putting a tick in the SNP box next year purely because they hate the English and the SNP gives them lots of money to keep buying fags and booze. I despair.

I agree. But we need a lot more accountability, not less.

It is absolutely not working!! NT kids are being badly let down by this shambolic gvnmt. Daily disruption to education because of their short sighted policies.

The people of Scotland never have a say, unless it's in regard to independence
SNP have to go

One example. ..

One pupil with asn (ADHD) nearly killed a teacher (lifted her up 'like a ragdoll' and there her into concrete. She has lifelong injuries and cannot work. Obviously hugely traumatised.

The pupil said, 'It wasn't done in anger, the cow deserved it .'

He had previously hurt pupils so was asked to change apart from them.

The sheriff , today, praised him for finally showing some remorse.

It actually makes me want to move to another country, mainly to protect my dc.

With respect, my child was harmed in state school by the violence and disruption and they’re ND. They just needed a calm orderly school to be able to cope, and got a riot instead. Every child is being failed here.