Livingston

[JWeegie]

Currently I am renting in west end Glasgow. Looking for buying a home. I'm married and have 2 kids, one just started nursery and elder one in S2.
We are searching for a suitable property since long, offered few but no luck.
Tried Newton Mearns, bearsden , bishopbrigg etc with no luck in bidding, some people are just throwing money like 15% - 25% offer over at the places like Newton Mearns. So things are difficult.
One of my friend who lives in Edinburgh, have family similar to me, we both work in same company, decided to buy a new build home in Livingston and pushing me to buy there. He and his wife nearly convinced my wife to move Livingston and it's in my budget too. But I am not 100% sure how Livingston is? Though I've been there for few times only for designer outlet, no idea about anything else.
How's the school/nursery etc in Livingston and how safe it is?
Can anyone who is from Livingston or have good idea about it, throw some lights here or suggestions?

There are better places to live with better schools. You need to do more research.

Its definitely gone up in the last decade or so. You can get good value for money. I think it used to be considered pretty run down but now all the new builds are big family homes. Its well located for getting into Edinburgh Or onto the motorway for going to Glasgow BUT if you were considering mearns, Bishopbriggs and Bearsden then Livingston is quite different and the schools are not the same standard. Whats your budget, how many bedrooms do you need and where do you work?

Hey, thanks for your reply.
My requirement is minimum 3 bedroom and parking (at least driveway). My son is in Hyndland secondary, so school should be at least Hyndland's level. I work in Edinburgh but go to office only 2 days a week (Glasgow to Edinburgh by train), 3 days work from home.
My budget is around £330,000.

Wow, i know its 2 days a week but from mearns or bearsden isnt an easy commute. Why do you want to stay in Glasgow?

Livingstone schools are not academically on a par with Hyndland.

Linlithgow academy? Linlithgow is a nice town with a lot going for it, good high st etc and you have a good train service to Edinburgh. Its also on the Glasgow line too if you wanted to go back and visit. Its a popular town so you dont get lots for sale and your budget may be tight but there is a 3bed up just now on Mill Rd (no idea what the road is like) its well under budget. Downstairs you might want more room but you would have spare cash to extend the house.

Or Lenzie? Again its on the Edinburgh train line albeit im not sure its the express one? Just make sure you are in the lenzie academy catchment - had a quick look and a few options up now.

@Namechange4466543
Yes commute from Newton Mearns/ Bearsden isn't easy (for Edinburgh).
Why Glasgow - it's been almost a decade I'm living in Glasgow, same flat, same area, so bit of affinity.
I used to work in JPMC (Glasgow), during lockdown I joined Edinburgh based company, but didn't moved because of lockdown, after that rental market skyrocketed, so commuting from Glasgow was still cheaper option instead of renting in Edinburgh. Moreover I have all of my friends here in Glasgow (and DS friends too).

Lenzie can be a good option, it's on Glasgow - Edinburgh express train route (I remember train stop at Lenzie when I return from office).
I'll see the catchment area of Lenzie academy and check for properties.
I saw a new development near Roberyston, but school catchment is a problem.

I'm not sure about high schools but on that budget I'd look at South Queensferry, Dunfermline, Bonnyrigg / Dalkeith and Musselburgh too.
You can even get something within the city bypass at a push. I think this would be in the catchment for Royal High which is one of the best high schools in Edinburgh 11 Fauldburn, East Craigs, Edinburgh EH12, 3 bed link detached house for sale, £315,000 - Zoopla

Having lived in many different places Livingston was far and away the worst. Soulless, crime-ridden with dire schools. Livingston is never the answer.

Thanks, I'll try googling about these area, probably few of my colleagues live there, I'll take feedback from them about school.

Thanks for your response.
So it seems Livingston is not a good choice for young families looking for safe area with good schools.

I think its unfair to say Livingston isnt safe. I know a few families in the new estates. These are decent families with at least one parent in a professional job and they love it. Seems like lots of kids around etc. But its quite different to the other places you mention and its very different to the west end of Glasgow.

The best state schools in Edinburgh are considered to be Royal High, Boroughmuir, James Gillespies, Craigmount and Firhill. I would probably exclude Boroughmuir and JG catchments as for what you want, i think the prices will be prohibitive.

Royal High catchment includes Blackhall, Cramond, Davidson Mains, Cammo and parts of Clermiston. You can download catchment maps from the Edinburgh council website. Since you are coming from a lively area of the city you may be interested in areas with a bit of a centre to them. There are shops on the main st in D Mains, at Barnton junction and on Queensferry Rd in Blackhall and the big retail park at Craigleith. Edinburgh can be expensive though so if you are happy to be a bit further from friends and move East, then the suggestion above in East Craigs looks good. There will be less going on on your doorstep but Edinburgh has a great bus service to the city centre.

Have a look at Dunfermline.

great schools and easy commute to Edinburgh. It’s much nicer than Livingston.

for £330k you get a nice place. The ones below have a max price of £300k

https://espc.com/properties?sortby=pricedesc&locations=ky11&minbeds=3plus&maxprice=300000

We're in Livingston and hoping to have moved by the time DC are in secondary, primary schools are fine here but I don't think there is a single good secondary school in the area.
Crime levels have definitely been on the rise over the last couple of years, a lot of car thefts, house breakins, people being mugged etc but not sure on how bad it is compared to other areas.
I don't want my children living their teen years here, I grew up here and it's completely different nowadays, there feels like a lot of bad influence in the area.
we are leaning toward Dunbar and north Berwick area but I haven't got round to looking at schools yet. I'd also consider Fife way.

Thanks for suggestions and details about the areas.
I am discussing this with my wife and she's happy to explore these areas. I looked at the catchment map, seems some of the school fit our requirement.

On map this place looks good. Thanks for suggesting.
That property also looking good, thanks to you, another area to explore/consider.

Thanks for your reply.
So it seems Livingston doesn't carry a very good reputation, I know every city has good and bad area, we can not generalize but since you live in Livingston, have first hand experience and hoping to move before your DC start secondary, giving me strong feelings not to move there. (most of the replies directly or indirectly suggesting that)
I'll explore the area you suggested.

Stirling, Dunblane, Bridge of Allan? There are houses there in your budget, and while not ranked as highly as it used to be Dunblane High is a good school;

This one needs a bit of work: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/166735964?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/164475140?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

Have no idea why people are saying the schools in Livingston aren’t good, St Margaret’s Academy was 23rd in the league tables this year.

This is higher than many of the schools in Edinburgh/Fife/East Dun mentioned here and interestingly for you it achieved exactly the same standard as Hyndland, which it is next to on the league table.

Your budget could get you a great family home in a nice part of Livingston, it won’t achieve that in Edinburgh.

It always surprises me the hate which Livingston gets on mumsnet. Sure it’s a new town, so no high street or independent shops, but there are some lovely parts of the town that are family friendly, commutable to Edinburgh/ glasgow and affordable.
St Margaret’s, West Calder and James Young always do well on the secondary school league tables.
I would visit the town, see some properties and get a feel for the area before ruling it out.

Thanks.
I spent entire day today getting more information about school.
st Margret academy is definitely good school (sitting at 23rd while Hyndland at 22nd position as per this year's rankings) but here is the catch - it's a RC school so par admission policies Baptised Roman Catholic children receive priority for admission to RC schools. Parents must provide evidence, such as a baptism certificate. After that it's for feeder RC primary school and then others of any places left. Probably a sectarian as well (I am not sure though, some people told me).
We aren't Catholic, neither DS went to any RC school so I feel it's difficult to get admissions for DS.
James Young is out of question as some people I know who lives there, clearly told me to stay away.

Yes, Livingston do suits my budget and I viewed couple of properties there and I like it, but before making the move I wanted to be sure hence this thread here.

We (me, my family, a friend and his family) did went to Livingston last weekend and spent good part of the day on viewing properties, mostly new build homes, they are great, easier to buy compared to bidding war of offer over things.
My friend went ahead and reserved one 4bed house on the spot. He even walked up to the St Margret academy with his kids to have a feeling of surrounding. His kids went to RC primary (one of them still in primary), so they have good chances of getting admission into St Margaret.
He and his wife now trying to convince my wife and myself, but we aren't very sure about schools, since we aren't catholic (RC school admission policy priority)and got 'mostly' negative feedback.
We'll be going again this weekend before making any final decision about Livingston.

I mainly didnt think Livingston would be a lifestyle fit for someone living in the west end of Glasgow and currently offering on homes in Mearns, Bearsden etc also there was no mention of wanting a RC school.

Re Edinburgh schools further down the league tables, its worth noting that this is largely due to the % of Edinburgh kids who go to private secondaries. Some of the schools i mentioned are lower down the league tables but they are still great schools with lots to offer and kids who want to do well, will. I would rather live in the catchment for one of these schools, than live in Livingston because like a pp mentions, its a new town and essentially a whole bunch of housing estates where you need to drive everywhere. You get a lot for your money so I can see the appeal but its quite a world away from the more upmarket places that op has been offering in. I agree they would probably get the best house in their budget in Livingston though.

The fact that the number of private school kids has an impact on Edinburgh school results is a bit of an urban myth.

The deprivation levels for schools are published.

For the schools you mentioned the rates and exam results (5 highers a-c) are as follows

Boroughmuir - 0.8% (74%)
Craigmount - 1.4% (61%)
James Gillespie’s - 3.5% (69%)
Royal High - 5.2% (58%)
Firrhill - 8.3% (43%)

All of these schools therefore have extremely affluent catchments but don’t perform as well as other schools with similar demographics, such as -

Woodfarm - 7.4% (83%)
Douglas - 4.7% (81%)

So despite the Edinburgh pupils being more affluent they achieve less.

But interestingly for this conversation St Margaret’s in Livingston achieves 63% with over 15% of pupils coming from a deprived background, yet also achieve more than the Edinburgh schools.

Apologies I wasnt suggesting there was depravation in these areas more that the parents who wanted to push for results seem to go private - of course not all but a chunk. These are definitely nice areas to live and in my opinion nicer than Livingston but it all depends on what you want. Like you say you would get a great house in Livingston and you would need to make sacrifices going to a more affluent area on the same budget

Livingston is not a bad place for families to be, but if you're used to Glasgow west end then it will be very different!
Also don't underestimate the impact of moving a child in S2, away from friendships and everything familiar. It's very different from the west. Personally I wouldn't do that unless it was absolutely necessary.

The only real correlation in the exam results league table is the less deprivation the better the results.

Just because some children are sent to different schools doesn’t mean it would have any effect on the children who aren’t.

You’re also making a massive assumption that children who get sent to private schools are more capable than those who don’t, why would child 1 who was sent to George Watson’s automatically achieve more than child 2 who was sent to Firrhill if they both went to the same school and all other factors (stable home, supportive parents) are the same?

In my experience of private schools many of the parents send their children there because they need extra support that they might not get a state school, whether through SEN or academic reasons, these are likely to be children who would struggle at state due to lack of resources so it wouldn’t be the boost to exam results that you think.

As for the area, the reality is that with the OP’s requirement of a 3 bedroom house with a driveway and the current state of the housing market in Edinburgh he would be looking at properties at o/o circa £275-280k.

Which means he would be looking at areas like Gilmerton/Liberton/The Inch, nothing wrong with living in these areas but given some of the earlier comments made on the thread about crime rates and the like in Livingston I’m not entirely sure they would be an improvement on that.

Ultimately the choice would be either a safe, affluent area with a decent possibly 4 bedroom house in Livingston or an inner-city house in a deprived area with all the issues that would bring, just so he can have an Edinburgh postcode and get into town 10 mins quicker.

Livingston suffers from a lot of snobbery because it was a new town, exactly the same as East Kilbride does in the west.

Primarily it’s because it originally housed the slum/tenement clearance population from Edinburgh/Glasgow.

But that was over 60 years ago, the population as a whole has moved on since then and poverty at the level of the 50’s/60’s is a thing of the past.

Most of the new estates are populated by Edinburgh/Glasgow professionals who have been priced out of the cities and want a good spacious childhood for their kids.

Obviously it’s not perfect but I find it laughable that people can portray it as crime-ridden, especially when compared to the feral gangs in parts of Edinburgh.

Amenity wise it’s better than most of the towns in Scotland and is within commuting distance of the town major cities.