Scottish university funding model is not sustainable?

[rickyrickygrimes]

I benefitted from the ‘free’ university studies as a Scottish student in the 1990s, just as loans were coming in.

I’m currently in France where the higher education model is very different: university students pay very little (€180 pa) but the conditions for students / status of the institution are nothing like that of Edinburgh, Glasgow, St Andrew’s, Dundee etc.

I’m working in university guidance now, and haven’t come across any countries that give local students free access to world class (and very expensive to run) universities. Many of the Scandi countries are free or nearly free - but University of Trondheim, fine institution that it may be, can’t compare with Edinburgh or Glasgow at the international / research / status level. Same with many of the European unis.

So do you think it’s sustainable? Are there any suggestions that the Scottish government will put a different funding model in place?

I work at a university and no - it's not sustainable. The entire model was built on international students basically subsidising Scottish students. Post Brexit and Covid, our international student numbers have gone sharply downhill so this can't be sustained. Something will have to change to keep the universities open - there are massive layoffs ahead where I work and it will only get worse.

I have two kids so would love to think they'd benefit with the sorts of options Scottish university students have today, but I can't see that actually happening by the time my kids are at uni (they're 12 and 8)

No. It isn't.

I've seen nothing on university finance reform - just like the tax system in general it's long overdue a huge overhaul.

As with tax, there are plans out there but politicians in Scotland and rUK aren't listening...

We've cut and cut research funding for sciences, this isn't in anyone's long term best interests - international research competitiveness seems to be the new luxury we can't afford.

It’s been clear for years that the Scottish model is unsustainable. Alex Salmond making ridiculous monuments to himself and his quotes about never having to pay for education have only compounded the delay in someone biting the bullet.

Agree entirely.

A set up that provides free tertiary education, and then has higher tax rates that deter people who’ve seen a financial benefit from that education from staying in Scotland has some fairly obvious flaws.

But it’s a vote winner, whereas a sustainable budget doesn’t seem to be.

international student numbers rocketed after brexit and covid i thought?

No it's not but then neither is the funding model in the rest of the UK. A lack of government funding and investment is the issue. Well, that and stopping universities throwing money away in inefficient IT systems that are never managed properly; and huge building projects that are not necessary; and vanity projects of the senior leadership etc

It’s not affordable at all, and the UK government started cracking down on student visas, despite the fact that overseas students were the cash cow of so many UK universities.

I think the free tuition fees cost the government about £1bn a year. The SNP don’t like admitting they’re wrong though so I can’t see them changing it. Things like CAMHS budgets, libraries, swimming pools etc will disappear before this is touched.

@lassingd anecdotally I think you are right.

there were a handful of international students at my Alma mater in the 1990s but my dc cohort were/are largely made up of international students. European students have dropped in numbers as they no longer get it free, lots of young people from asia paying extortionate amount of money which Scottish students (and parents)
would not pay or take loans out for.

In my view universities are a behemoth now, pyramid schemes and are big employers. My dh and my degree year had 60 graduates, now it’s over 200 for each year.

Im all for having a more highly education population but education is a privilege which is even less valued by Scottish society than before. Considering the average reading age in Scotland is 9-11 years it’s failing!

id rather we got the basics right and had stable jobs with good career progression for our young people. Remember positive destinations for school leavers is everything apart from prison or in the dole; in my opinion it’s failing

My sibling works at Edinburgh - they’ve extended the voluntary redundancy offer they had in place and are looking to start compulsory redundancies in the spring.

it’s the fatal combination of very high status/ expensive universities and very low local student fees. My oldest will go to uni here in France, and the fees are only €180 per year. But he will have to cope with big class sizes, no tutorials, rote learning and little contact with world-class research or ‘real’ academics. It’s nothing like the same status or the same experience as the big Scottish unis, and it doesn’t cost as much to provide.

But Scottish students are getting a champagne degree on lemonade money, and champagne is expensive to produce.

So..jealous? Why does it bother you?
I have two great degrees that I didn't pay a penny for and help many students apply for theirs.

... O...Kay?

The system is unsustainable.

It's worryingly unsustainable, I work at a university and think the whole sector will look very different in the next 4 or 5 years. I have a degree but if I were back in my teens I amnot sure I'd bother with university now.

Big unis such as Edinburgh are loss making just now but have massive reserves, can attract research funding and international students better than any other Scottish uni with the exception of perhaps St Andrews.

Smaller Scottish unis are stuffed.

I think you're probably right. My son is at Edinburgh now (Scottish) so we are benefitting but if his sister goes to Uni in 3 years I wouldn't be amazed if things have changed.

I will say that Uni seems to be seen as a rite of passage now. I don't think that's how it should be viewed if we are providing free tuition fees. It is education. That should be the over arching idea and I'm not sure that is the case. A lot of ds's friends have quit Uni and this is only first year but they'll still have taken up valuable funding.

Even Edinburgh (and other UK based world class unis) are chasing less and less research funding though.

In most cases, research costs money - teaching is the income generator for most parts of the university, used to subsidise the research. It’s an ecosystem of course as without robust research there couldn’t be interesting teaching - but a university couldn’t sustain itself on research income.