Moving to Scotland on retirement- good idea or not?

[Lansonmaid]

Our daughter moved to Brechin 4 years ago for work and son is hopefully going to move to Scotland too. We currently live in the South West of England, I'm about to retire and DH is 10 years older. Our interests are walking, sailing, basically outdoors type stuff. I like choral singing as well.

What's healthcare like, will we be able to make friends? Any ideas / thoughts welcomed

NHS Healthcare is poor especially outside the central belt. Significant problems at both Dundee and Aberdeen. No sign of Scottish Government having any idea how to address this.

healthcare is similar to england overall - under pressure, waiting lists, A&E not coping, etc.

the main issue though is that if you move to somewhere rural you can end up needing treatment at a hospital miles away - particularly if you end needing "centre of excellence" type treatment... leaving aside actual population scale - scotland has 174 people per square mile, england has 720. and around 70% of people live in the central belt.

you should be able to make friends - plenty of local groups in most areas for different activities as well as things like facebook walking groups.

Outdoorsy in SW England is pretty different to outdoorsy in Scotland. It is colder and the winters are darker. Spring takes an extra six to eight weeks to arrive and autumn comes six weeks earlier - so three to four more months of poor weather and everything in its winter coat. It is rarely warm enough in summer to feel comfortable eating outside in the evening, and not many days when it will feel comfortably warm doing so at lunchtime and then midges might drive you inside depending where you live. There may be a right of access but there isn’t a network of rights of way and local footpaths in the same way as there is in England that take you from pub to pub (country pubs are rare too). So if you want a wintry hike ten miles across bleak moorland, round a loch or up a mountain with hardly another soul in sight then great, but if you are after a four mile countryside ramble stopping off for lunch at a local pub and finishing at a tea shop then your choices are limited.

Could you rent/have an extended holiday to see how it feels?

Research the areas you are interested in carefully. There’s a lot of walking pretty much all over and outdoor pursuits are pretty common, but it is much colder as pp have said, and even a dog walk can require some technical layers.

I am in West Aberdeenshire; main hospital is Aberdeen (ARI) about an hour away by car. If you need to go to ARI, you need to drive or be driven. GP service is very overstretched.

Public transport is spotty at best and a lot of countryside is not served by trains. So bear that in mind when thinking about getting older.

You will make friends if you are able to join in the local activities.

As pp suggested, consider a rental in an area you like, probably in November or January. Consider shopping , deliveries ( other than food) , heating etc.

But we’d be happy to have you !

The south of scotland is worth a look. Midlothian, East Lothian or Scottish Borders all have nice villages and lovely non mountain walking.

Thanks for replies so far, not hot weather people so lack of warmth isn't so big an issue. And our main hospital in Cornwall is over an hour away and seems to spend a lot of the winter in crisis so used to that!

Where we are at present is very rural which means we both have to be able to drive, so looking at somewhere less isolated

We’re retiring to Perth, wonderful city and everything we need on our doorstep.
Only had occasion to use the infirmary once, husband broke his ankle. In, x-rayed, set and out within 90 minutes.

In terms of health here are NHS Tayside’s (Brechin) current waiting times:

Outpatient (eg gynaecology urgent = 33 weeks, routine = 113 weeks)
https://www.nhstaysidecdn.scot.nhs.uk/NHSTaysideWeb/idcplg?IdcService=GET_SECURE_FILE&Rendition=web&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&noSaveAs=1&dDocName=prod_382815

And if you need inpatient treatment (gynae urgent = 108 weeks, routine = 148 weeks
https://www.nhstaysidecdn.scot.nhs.uk/NHSTaysideWeb/idcplg?IdcService=GET_SECURE_FILE&Rendition=web&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&noSaveAs=1&dDocName=prod_382816

So five year wait for a ‘routine’ gynae operation. You don’t get to choose a different area like you can in England. I know several women who have had gynae ops recently. They all paid to go private and none are particularly well off; it took a chunk of their savings.

You would definitely be able to make friends if you move to a town with lots of groups etc.
I would say pick somewhere which has transport links so ideally a train station. I also suggest spending some time up here in Winter so Jan/Feb or November so you get used to the level of darkness.

Would say the East Coast is drier then the West Coast, plenty of beaches, woods and hills.
If your Daughter is Brechin then you might want to either go there or nearby so Montrose, Stonehaven etc all have train stations and a lots of community activities.

You can be just on the edge of the central belt and have great access to the countryside.
I used to live in Dumfries and Galloway which is lovely but very much the middle of nowhere. Got a lot of family in the central belt and places such as Linlithgow are lovely great transport links and great countryside near by. Stirling and Perth are also good options

The equivalent wait for treatment at Royal Cornwall hospital for routine gynae issues is 39 weeks (vs 261 in Tayside)

I am not a retiree but yes you will be able to make friends easily.
lots for retirees to do in the area ( I have family at retiree age who are very active and social)

Lots of walking in and around Dundee and Angus but there is the local
ramblers which is really social for the retiree age group giving hard and easier option walks most weeks and social nights.
I have heard of a few folks sailing with Yatch clubs in the area (Broughty Ferry, Carnoustie and there is topper sailing at crombie park), curling at Forfar Indoor sports (Dundee has curling but Forfar is better and there are lots of try curling sessions if you fancy a go, season is beginning of October to end of March)
Scottish country dancing groups are popular with active retirees (Kirriemuir meet weekly on a Monday) musical and choir groups galore (each town in Angus seems to have a musical society and a choir).

I spoke to a couple last year who were originally from Yorkshire but have relocated from the Scottish borders to Carnoustie to be nearer gp and Dundee ninewells is so close, they seemed happy with their move.

Local community councils are always on the look out for local people to join and get involved.

bus provision is getting better in Angus. In Angus some rural community councils are getting a dial a bus. You used to have to get two buses to get from Brechin to Dundee but my family in Brechin were raving about the Ember bus which picks up at brechin and goes direct to Aberdeen, Dundee or Edinburgh and is very regular and goes throughout the day and night.

I’ve worked in the NHS in England and Scotland and know many others who have done the same thing. We all say the same thing; people in Scotland have no idea what’s going on in England, in England its out and out war, someone I was talking to the other day who’d recently moved to Scotland she said “The NHS in England is like Beirut”. Where I live getting a GP appointment is not difficult and I’ve been referred to various specialist and certainly waited no longer than I would have waited in England. I’m not saying it’s not going to become like England, my colleagues here complain they cant get an an NHS dentist this is obviously a fairly recent problems but in England as I’m sure you are aware that’s been the case for 15 years probably longer. I do agree that you might have to travel for some specialist care for example where I live people travel to Edinburgh for radiotherapy that’s over 2 hours away but healthcare is definitely not worse here.
I live in the south west of Scotland it’s stunningly beautiful and gloriously peaceful but the default position here is rain and wind, few/no barny summer days like you’ll have experienced in the south west 🤣. But its warmer here than the east coast which I’m reliably informed has more sunshine and colder winds. I very much doubt you ever get the same temperatures anywhere in Scotland as you would in the south west. But we do have longer days in the summer (and shorter ones in the winter) and certainly where I am the air feels less polluted and it’s just so much quieter.
Scotland has an aging population where I live there are many activities for those who retired something to suit everyone including all you listed. In fact I would say here that the retired are very well catered for as most activities take place during the day.
I can only speak from personal experience I find the Scots very friendly and welcoming. Obviously if you go in endlessly slagging off Scotland and comparing it to how wonderful England is and particularly in some areas sit in a pub criticising SNP and Independence your going to rub people up the wrong way but I’ve made lots of friends here. This maybe a bit of a generalisation but I find the Scots are much more friendly and significantly less pretentious than the English.
If you love walking the outdoor life sailing etc Scotland is the place for you, we have the right to roam, miles of simply stunning coast line, numerous sailing opportunities. There are some areas which attract lots of visitors although I suspect nothing like some parts of the south west but you really don’t have to go far to fund a beautiful beach or view and find you are the only ones there.
I think the one things people in England don’t realise is how big Scotland is I think many English people think it’s about the size of the Isle of Wight and are completely stunned when they discover that they can’t for example visit the Cairngorms from where I live for the day. So my advise is think carefully about where you want to live. Decide how close you want to be to your daughter and son. Public transport in many areas is not great (just like England) although IME it’s better on the east and there are more airports if you want to fly back to England.
Good luck.

Obviously the SW of Scotland is where you should go, as getting an NHS dentists has been an issue in my area going back decades. And waiting lists are much longer than England. My DC is currently into year 3 of a wait for treatment. A shame we don’t have the right they have in England to choose NHS treatment in another area if SW Scotland has waiting lists like those in England…

Waiting lists in many hospitals in England for certain procedures/specialities are at least 3 yrs often longer pre covid when things were slightly better I was quoted 4 yrs to have my gall bladder removed. I have worked extensively for NHS England in both the acute sector which has totally collapsed and in primary care, it’s much worse there I’m not saying the NHS is great up here and that there are no difficulties and like in England it’s chronically underfunded but many of the difficulties you’re seeing now in Scotland have existed in England since the coalition government and George Osborne's austerity policies.
Unfortunately due a chronic health problem I’ve been on the other end and I’ve waited no longer than I would in England and that’s including being referred to a tertiary centre for treatment/investigations.
My DC lives in Glasgow and easily got an NHS dentist in London not a hope in hell.

It completely depends where you are going to live on what resources are available. In the highlands we are massively struggling with lack of infrastructure to support the influx of residents. Housing is constantly going up but doctors surgeries, schools and hospitals are not proportional so it is a struggle. I was referred to gynaecology after 15 years of issues, I was eventually wetting myself as unable to hold any longer and it took 2 years before my first appointment came through. Thankfully I was operated on quickly (3 months later) but only because I was offered a last minute cancellation slot. The main hospital in Inverness is on its knees and services are unable to cope with demand. Impossible to get registered with a NHS dentist in the area unless you are under 16, even then it is only certain practises. Roads are shocking and the A9 is constantly experiencing fatalities. We love where we live and gladly welcome anyone to move here if they wish but it is good to be aware of the issues we are facing. We are very fortunate that we haven’t required too much from nhs or services but as a NHS worker it worries me for the future. My parents also decided not to relocate here as it is easier for them to access healthcare in their wee town on the west coast. But that town has its own issues, particularly housing! Definitely research the area and your DD will be able to provide valuable insight.

As of December there were 10,869 patients waiting more than two years to be seen by secondary care in Scotland. The total number for the whole of England (population ten times the size) was 113.

People in Scotland who have not lived in England can tell you what's not working here but not if it's any worse than what you are used to!

Overall, public services here are creaking less and people still expect to receive decent NHS health care (vs parts of England where expectations have plummeted). Having said that, council services really creaking around the edges.

You could have a good quality of life in Scotland.

As others have said, do not underestimated the impact of being further north. The equivalent of the shortest day in south of England happens in mid November in the central belt of Scotland, meaning a full 6-8 weeks that is even darker than that. It does make a difference.

And a full 8 degrees colder than southern temps, most of the year round.

(And this is putting aside Highlands and islands!)

This simply is not true where we are. Rural, close to Glasgow. We eat outside very often, most of the summer. There are lots of country pubs we stop at when we go out walking. And midges are not very common, though I know that they become more of an issue as you go up north.

Well I worked in NHS England for years and I can categorically tell you that in my very extensive experience and also the very extensive experience of those who are still working in both countries would say that the NHS England especially in the acute side has collapsed completely. Im not saying it’s all perfect here but it’s far worse in England and it certainly wouldn’t put me off moving to Scotland.
Nothing would get me back to working in NHS England. But what would those who are actually working in it know?

So how do you explain the fact that over 10,000 people are waiting over two years for treatment in Scotland versus 113 in the whole of England?

I bet you think education is better in Scotland too. And that we are great at building ferries to time and on budget.

I think you comment about not criticising the SNP is revealing.

Ok for the record I didn’t vote SNP and I don’t have a view one way or the other on Independence I can see the pros and cons of both arguments so am completely sitting on the fence. Waiting lists are just one part of what the NHS does there are lots of other things and EVERYONE I know whos worked in both countries thinks it’s better here.
I know nothing about ferries so for example would not comment on a thread on here about them.
I would also not comment on Scottish education apart from to say it seems very confusing because my children haven’t grown up here.
I like Scotland aim happy here .

I live in Arbroath and love it here. We do have better public transport links than Brechin since we have the east coast train line here but the new Ember route through Brechin has helped so much there by the sound of things. We have a better footy team than Brechin too.

Many locals will moan about the area but while there are some problems I think that's true of almost everywhere really and it depends what you make of it. We have so much history and beautiful areas to go for a walk or even just sit and admire the view that I do think many folk take that for granted.

Both DH and I have had some serious health concerns recently. He had had dizzy spells at work (he's a bus driver for Ember) so he phoned the GP, had an in-person appointment an hour later and two hours after that we were at Ninewells in Dundee for him to have numerous checks at AMU. We were there for 10 hours total over two days but the sheer number of tests he had was absolutely amazing in that time. He would come back to sit with me while waiting on results then would get whisked away for more tests (everyone from the stroke team to neurology were involved). They were constantly offering sandwiches and drinks over the two days as well. He was then discharged from AMU to wait for a sleep study which was rushed through as urgent and we're expecting the results from that this week, it actually took a little longer than usual just because we had been at AMU just before Christmas so the holidays delayed some things. With my own situation it was a suspected heart attack, the ambulance service was really busy at the time so I was told it would be about an hour. I was able to sort my own transport to A&E though so was able to cancel the ambulance. Once I got to A&E I was only in the waiting room for 5 minutes then spent 3 hours in a bay having multiple tests. While waiting on blood results I was taken to an empty ward where DH and I were given dinner and looked after really well until I was given the ok to go home again. I'm now waiting on a cardiology referral which I know might take longer as it's not urgent but the urgent care we both had was brilliant.

We even had fairly speedy and decent care when it comes to CAMHS in our area (for our now 16yo). I know many others don't and we did have some minor niggles with things but all things considered we were happy with the service.

I definitely recommend visiting the area a few times at different times of the year. Everyone says it's always cold up here but I really don't think it is, just depends on each person and what they're used to I guess.

Arbroath especially is often protected from the worst of the snow in winter and we rarely get it, whereas a friend in Yorkshire can be under feet of the stuff when we just have rain. Brechin can be bad for flooding, so definitely look into the risks of that if you considered there. It wasn't that long ago they had a really bad flood after storms and they are way more likely to get the snow than we are on the coast. Dundee and Angus is a great area though and definitely worth giving it an explore to see if you'd like a move here.

West end of Glasgow, Dowanhill or Hyndland has everything on your doorstep. 25 mins in car or train to Loch Lomond & loads of coastal destinations. Culture, amazing produce and restaurants abound, you can easily join choirs or any other group. Friends easy to make. You can train up to Brechin to visit. Life up there could be isolated and services tricky to access.