How good do nat5 need to be for child to go on to do highers?

[Purplturpl]

We are at beginning of nat5 year with my first child.

School usually do a meeting explaining how the nat 5 work and from my older 2 boys as long as they pass Nat 5 and teachers think they will cope with higher they are put forward. So are they in 3rd year or start of 4th my 3rd son is in 3rd year so bit of time before Nat 5 now. You can crash highers also so you don’t necessarily need the Nat 5 - my son crashed geography i think. All depends on the school but maybe better to ask them?

They just need to have passed it

Ah ok. I read somewhere about people thinking you need a certain pass grade for gcse to do a level. And I though maybe the same for nat5

Some schools/staff/subjects will ask for a minimum of a N5 B. I have always taken in pupils with a C and never had any issues.

Have those with a C passed higher?

It's one of the good things about the Scottish system that progression to Highers from Nat5s seems to be much smoother and less of a barrier than progression from GCSEs to A levels. A level maths in particular is seen as so hard but is also required for so many careers (lots of sciences, economics, medicine, architecture). I really hate that in England at 16 so many children have so many well paid careers closed to them based on their A level choices. Can you tell I'm Scottish living in England with English teenagers 😂.

Oh that’s interesting @JaninaDuszejko
my ds isn’t so good at maths and I wonder if he will go on to do higher. But it does close off a lot of job prospects for him. So maybe it’s worth pushing on with tutors

It varies per subject as some are easier than others- our school gave us the statistics for each subject on the likely hood of passing the higher for each Nat5 grade

If i remember correctly computing and physics were ones were the stats show if you dont have at least a B grade in Nat 5 you are unlikely to pass the higher

the new system with Nat5s is so flexible for all teenagers, it means you can do a new Nat5 in 5th year and do the higher in 6th year rather than the old rigid system of only having one shot at standard grades and you could only do highers in 5th and 6th year.

dd’s friend failed nat5 maths in 4th year, resat it in 5th and passed then did higher maths in 6th year.

both ds and dd crashed a few highers without even doing the Nat5.

It depends on the subject.
We were advised by the school that having a C in maths would mean he would struggle at Higher.
And he did and dropped it by Christmas

the new system with Nat5s is so flexible for all teenagers, it means you can do a new Nat5 in 5th year and do the higher in 6th year rather than the old rigid system of only having one shot at standard grades and you could only do highers in 5th and 6th year.

That was always the same. I did an extra O grade back in the 80s in 5th year alongside my Highers. Then I crashed a couple of extra Highers in 6th year.

@2chocolateoranges do you mind me asking which highers they crashed? Just wondering which ones tend to work for that

If you are struggling in one subject, our school encourages you to take the Nat4 in 4th yr, Nat5 in 5th and the higher in 6th year (I think it's usually maths)

I think different schools will advise slightly differently…. But usually advice is a B, or better. Starting from a C is possible but means a lot of work needed to pass at higher.

Most schools will run a parents' evening after the prelims, so you can discuss their prospects for Nat 5s, and then at that point the teacher will say whether or not Higher is a good idea or not.

I would advise that a C at Nat 5 would make Higher Maths a tough year. It could be worth doing it over 2 years from a grade C but it wouldn't generally be advised over one year.
Students studying Nat4 in S4 will rarely, if ever, manage to do Nat 5 in S5 and Higher in S6. The Nat 5 in S5 is generally possible with a lot of work but the jump to Higher is too much for these students.
This is Mathematics I'm talking about, I'm not so sure about Applications of Mathematics as I have not taught it yet.

I would say your interpretation @Mathsisfun would be correct. There will be a limit to how far some students can go even with extra years to spread the work. The concepts in maths get very difficult and advanced higher is only possible for some students

Not when I was at school in the early 90s, you did standard grades in 4th year , then highers in 5th and 6th year.

one did photography and got a B
the other did psychology and got a B as-well as physics and got an A!

photography and psychology were straightforward, physics as a crash was just madness, but hard work and determination paid off.

Oh I have never heard of psychology higher before

Our school suggest that you should only do highers in subjects you got at least a B in N5 in (not crash highers obv).

my eldest got 7 As at N5 and did 5 highers. My youngest got 3 B 2 C and a D at N5 and is doing 3 highers. I’d be happier if he was doing 2 but it’s his choice x

can I derail, or would you prefer me to start a new thread?

My DC is already struggling with nat5 maths. she is miserable. On four separate waiting lists for various ND assessments and mental health issues.

What would be the longterm consequences of going down to nat4? Or even Numeracy? She simply cannot handle any more stress. She's not the kind of child who can bury herself in schoolwork as an escape.

Could she do applications of maths?

n5 apps will be better than n4 maths

my youngest did apps rather than maths

She would be better doing Nat 4 than failing Nat 5. Or look at apps. Application of maths is more ‘real world’ problems but can be quite wordy which can be an issue for some. The less ‘mathematical’ pupils at my DC school tend to do apps. Doing Nat 4 in S4 doesn’t stop her doing Nat 5 in S5.

Thank you for the suggestions. I’ll get in touch with school once I’ve looked at application of maths.