Edinburgh council not funding private nursery places

[Beestingsore]

This story seems to imply that if you have a preschool child in an Edinburgh private nursery the council will stop any funding they give you, limiting nursery funding to council run nurseries. Is that right? I cannot read the full article, but surely they cannot do that?

I have a child soon to be 3 and would LOVE to be able to use a council run nursery, but that only seems to be suitable for those where one parent has the luxury of not working. For any families where join parents have to work the nursery hours in council places are laughably inadequate. Surely they cannot take away the current subsidy which will halve my massive bill.

https://www.scotsman.com/education/edinburgh-commuters-face-major-childcare-impact-under-city-council-plans-to-end-funded-places-in-private-nurseries-4521950

I can’t load the article but the fact that the headline says ‘Edinburgh commuters’ might be relevant. Could it be about funding for Edinburgh private nurseries when families live outwith the council area?

That's exactly what it says in the article.
So if you live in Edinburgh city you can use private with funding but if not will need to use a nursery in your home council area.

Parents who commute into Edinburgh will no longer be able to access funded childcare places in the city’s private and independent nurseries under plans put forward by the local authority.
Council chiefs intend to “phase out” access, with those who work in the capital but live in areas such as Fife, East Lothian, West Lothian and Midlothian only to be offered places in council-run nurseries.

I don't think this is totally true. If you look at the minutes from the council meeting, it suggests allowing parents from other council areas to sign up to Edinburgh council nurseries and buy extra hours. I assume this means parents would have the choice between council or private nurseries if they can get full-time places in either. The council want as many children as possible using their nursery places, and doing this will help to maximise their numbers.

More info here: Point 5.2, page 322 of the Public Report Pack
democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/mgChooseDocPack.aspx?ID=6787

If you want to read an article behind a paywall then copy the link onto this page https://12ft.io/

I can understand the need but i think this will cause a lot of problems. I no a few mums who take their kids to nursery in Edinburgh from East Lothian because their local nursery times don't work for their commute so yet again this risks more mums being pushed out of the workplace. The other problem is that in east lothian, there is a huge shortage of childcare. There are no private nurseries in the NB, Gullane area of East Lothian for example with council funding. Again, the opening hours of the council nurseries dont work with parents doing a commute. Given most families in the area will have some kind of a commute, I can see many families being affected by this.

It seems a bit ludicrous. Do preschool kids benefit from nursery? Yes. Can the council provide? No. Why on earth is if not done on the residence of the child?

Who knows what's happening considering the person who wrote the report has now retired.

I understand the argument for it but its going to be difficult for a lot of families to accept when childcare provision in their own council area is so poor. Its just highlighting yet again that current provision is not fit for purpose.

This makes no sense at all when Lothians and Edinburgh are so intertwined. We live in Penicuik and use a private nursery in Edinburgh. For a start he began nursery at 8 months and council nurseries don't start they young, and then the local school nurseries are unworkable for us due to shutting at 3pm and being closed in the holidays. It's often much easier to have your child at a nursery setting near your work. This should be funded at government level so it's not an issue. There isn't even enough nursery provision combined across Edinburgh and Lothians with years long waiting lists let alone this now making these even more difficult. I don't understand the motivation behind this at all. But the upshot is it will make families lives harder, and will as usual disproportionately affect mothers.

Yes, it's a proposal that Edinburgh council will no longer fund private nursery places for non-Edinburgh residents.

Which makes total sense to me.

The problem is that the Scottish Government introduced 'funding follows the child' but then implemented funding based on residence/LA. Unless the council can get a chargeback system, where neighbouring LAs reimburse Edinburgh for the funding, why should Edinburgh council pay for it?

I’m not affected by this thankfully but it is perfectly obvious what ought to happen - councils fund nursery places for their residents regardless of which council area the nursery placement is in.

Exactly! Surely they can just transfer the funding between LAs - I thought that is what happened anyway to be honest but there's clearly some issue. It just happen all over the place where folk live near LA boundaries.

So that would require a lot of admin -either at council level, nursery level or some kind of centralised system.

I'm not saying I disagree, but that's why we don't have that.

And when it's usually for 2 years, before children move to school in their own LA, I can see why there's no appetite to introduce the system

But in order to get the funding the nursery has to be registered. Why isn’t there a central database of nurseries with lists of children with the right to funding, which churns out payments to nurseries and bills to councils every month? It’s not hard! I could knock up a spreadsheet in an afternoon and I’m no IT expert.

in a private company such a thing would be done in no time. In the public sector it seems to take 5 years, multiple committees and £2bn.

@Beestingsore completely agree with you. The councils all have a list on their respective websites with private funded nurseries in the areas so it wouldnt take much to collate. Im astounded there isnt a charge back system already in place. Or even as pp alluded to if it was done by region ie. All of lothians etc.

Does anyone know when the proposal is being considered or voted on? Given Edinburgh council is there to serve its own residents its hard to see them rejecting it but does the proposal contravine the government if as another pp said, the funding follows the child?

Iv just been on google and under the funding follows the child rules, it says:
10. For families this means that they will be able to access high quality funded ELC with the provider of their choice – in the public, private, or third sector or a childminder – if that provider meets the criteria set out in the National Standard, wishes to deliver the funded entitlement, has a space available, is able to offer the funded hours in-line with their local authority's ELC delivery plan (subject to the capacity of the setting), and is in contract with their local authority to deliver the funded hours.

So that would indicate that you do need to be with your local authority to comply with the rules. However, it seems like some councils have set up cross boundary agreements - halfway down this page there is reference to one of these agreements for somewhere in Glasgow - https://www.gfis.org.uk/FAQs/ i cant find one specifically for lothian but there must be one in place and on another page of the funding rules, it says:
183. It is expected that for many education authorities their admissions policies will include cross-boundary arrangements. Under Funding Follows the Child the choice of setting available to families is not restricted to their own local authority boundary. Therefore families should be able to access their child's early learning and childcare entitlement at any setting that meets the National Standard, has a space available and is willing to enter into contract with the education authority. Education authorities should, wherever possible, make arrangements that ensure families accessing cross-boundary placements are treated on the same basis, for example in the timeframe for providing a decision, as families accessing provision within their local authority area.

But that’s not how it’s done.

Right now, a private nursery will check that a child is entitled to the funding, based on age.

They will then tell the council how many children they have in receipt of funding, per term.

The council doles out the money three times a year.

That’s a lot less admin than keeping records of all 3 and 4 year olds in private nursery, plus info on which LA they are resident in

The Scottish Government issued a report on this in December https://www.gov.scot/publications/funding-follows-child-national-standard-early-learning-childcare-providers-operating-guidance-2/pages/6/. This is what it says on cross-border:

6. A parent wants to access their funded hours outwith the local authority. How will this arrangement be managed?

One of the key principles of the Funding Follows the Child approach is to allow parents and carers to make their own choices about where their child accesses their funded hours. The operating guidance states that “the choice of setting available to families is not restricted to their own local authority boundary” and it is expected that local authorities and funded providers do their best to grant this request if there are spaces available. If a setting is already a funded provider with another local authority then this should constitute enough evidence to fund the child in their chosen funded provider. Local authorities should work together to share information about funded providers and provide clarity and reassurance that funding can be given to this provider. It is unlikely that the setting would need to apply to become a funded provider in more than one local authority area. Good practice would be for local authorities to keep details of these arrangements and evidence of checks for suitability to be a funded provider centrally alongside evidence of funded providers in their own area. This will ensure a clear audit trail of compliance and funding outputs for children resident in the area.

The 'do their best' is prety woolly phrasing

Well if thats the case the problem is clear to see. An article popped up on Edinburgh live about a nursery near west lothian but within the Edinburgh boundary. They are concerned about the viability of their business as they seemingly get a lot of west lothian families who they expect will withdraw their kids. It says in the article its expected the rule will come in from August. Its just yet again another failure by the Scottish Gov to implement things properly. My dd is currently at nursery. Her nursery doesnt even take part in the 1140 hour scheme because they say they run at a loss on the day rate from the council. Iv resigned myself to never getting the funding. Literally a postcode lottery.

I don’t see why this should be difficult. You pop down your local authority on your nursery form and they invoice them accordingly.

That would require the nursery to invoice loads of different local authorities. Also different local authorities have different rates

That’s a lot less admin than keeping records of all 3 and 4 year olds in private nursery, plus info on which LA they are resident in

A private nursery that does not have that very basic level of information on children in their care has no business running a nursery.

So?

So if I were a nursery and I had to choose between doing all that admin for 5 different local authorities, or just taking Edinburgh kids, I know what I'd choose

Especially when Edinburgh council pays a higher hourly rate