Sitting No Prelims what now?

[Roxell]

My DS has struggled all through education, every subject, every teacher, he has told multiple teachers he doesn't understand the work, or what he is being told to do since primary 4. We strongly believe he has ADD. Every single teacher on his most recent school report wrote he can't focus on the work and unless he is interested in the subject there is no work from him at all, he sits in class and listens but writes nothing down. He has asked for help multiple times through the years, he has had teachers say they don't have time for him. He spends time in the support rooms because some teachers have kicked him out. He even has a reduced timetable and misses the first period every day ( this was the school's decision) After all, he can't do the work. He was assessed but because he is a polite and quiet boy the form for ADD is the same one for ADHD which he doesn't have. He was sent to Cahms because of his low mood and self-esteem and they wrote back saying he doesn't need help there either. My kiddo isn't stupid, put him in front of a PC and he will blow you away with everything he knows about them and game running programs, code, game making, etc. He taught himself. My DD is autistic and a year younger and she tutored him one on one on math over a few days and he picked up the math and got 89/100 when she marked him. He is now at NAT 3 for math as a result. He is less for every other class. He has just informed us that he hasn't sat a single Prelim, when he went and asked the organiser, he looked up my sons school record and was told he would not pass a single one so he isn't sitting any because none of his NATs are high enough. These are mock exams, right? To help the kids have an idea of what they need to study on for the SQAs? So does this mean he wont be assigned any SQAs tests either because he will fail them all according to the school? If that's the case then than means if he left at the beginning of 5th year he would have NO qualifications??? I don't know what to do, my boy has been over looked his entire education, has had to fight every step of the way to learn anything and not one teacher has given him the time of day and tried to help. They agree there is a problem but wont do anything to help? I'm at my wits end.

I’m sorry to read this. Support for children with ASN is so woeful and getting worse

have you asked the school/local authority for a formal assessment of his additional support needs?

that should be a first step

How old is he? Could he leave school and do a course at college instead, such as computing or gaming, to get the qualifications he needs and in an area that interests him? Have you spoken to your GP about getting him assessed or looked into a private assessment?

This sounds very difficult for your son, but anything below N5 has no exams so prelims are not necessary. N3 and N4 are based on course work and class based assessments so it's likely he will be presented for these qualifications.

I don't have exact experience of this but I didn't want to read and run because this is worrying. Your OP said that your son has asked for support and help but have you spoken to the school / teachers directly about your concerns? I'm assuming he is S4 so exams are in May. It sounds like he has ability in Maths if he is scoring 89/100 at home. Can you afford a tutor? My daughter (ADHD / ASD) scored U in S3 Maths exam (pre diagnosis) and school kept threatening to drop her to Nat 4 but I kept refusing because we knew she had the ability with support. She got a B in Nat 5 with the help of a tutor (and a change of school in S4 but that's a longer story) in S4. If possible, your DS should get qualifications to build on in S5 (Nat 4s) so he can take Nat 5 Maths and English and a few others and some Highers possibly in S6 or go on to college to do what he enjoys. I've found the Scottish system is more flexible and allows for catch up more than the English system that I grew up with. Keep talking to the school and demand meetings if you have to.
Also, my DD was diagnosed as ADHD in CAHMS last year. She was never hyper either and when I asked, they said they don't diagnose ADD anymore, it all comes under the umbrella of ADHD, like they don't diagnose Aspergers, just ASD now. I just wanted to let you know that.

I just realised my post was confusing - I meant to say he should get Nat 4s in essential subjects like Maths and English in S4 so he can use them as building blocks to gain Nat 5s in S5. Nat 4s are still a qualification. I know how hard and worrying this is for you and him.

My son for various reasons didn't sit many exams, basically if they aren't seen as able to pass Nat 5 then there are no prelims and no exams in May. I think this is wrong, we moved up from England and at least there everyone gets a chance at gcses. My son still got a certificate from SQA with his Nat 4 results, its pass and fail and usually teacher assessed through tasks and some tests in school time.

Nat 4s are not a bad thing. At least he will leave school or move forward into S5 with something. Ok, it’s not Nat5 qualifications via exams but that doesn’t define a child.

My son is badly dyslexic and is finding school really hard. He passed his Nat 4 English already and we are at a cross roads with his English prelim for Nat 5 being border line grade D/no award. I am of the opinion that I would much rather his Nat 4 was presented to the SQA rather than potentially having no award in a Nat 5 exam in May and ending up with nothing. Nat 4 is better than nothing at the end of 4th year. I may also push for him to be dual presented if the second half of his English prelim is a more positive result. I won’t know that until next month though and I will have to push school hard to dual present. They don’t like doing it but can do it.

If he can get a D at Nat 5 that is better than a
Nat 4 so may depend how close he is to that. We are in a similar position with my own son for English. Everything else he will hopefully manage an award at N5

Yes, I agree however, that said the stress in December with exams was awful. He was a changed person and anxiety was through the roof. He struggled to get down on paper what he wanted to. Obviously we can put in place techniques. He still has the other half of his English prelim to come so won’t make a decision until then.

If school are happy to dual present then we will absolutely push for Nat 5.

Thank you all for your replies. The majority of replies were about having my son assessed. We did. We went to the doctors and told them the issues we are having, they told us the school has to refer him. So we went to the school, every teacher filled out the questionnaire that covered ADHD/ADD. They sent it away and the results came back he didn't score high enough to be considered either. We went back to the doctors they told us the school have to be the ones that refer him to anything because he is under 16. Went back to the school, had a longer conversation about my son, talked about his no sleeping, his inability to focus, his not being able to understand coursework when it's spoken to the class, and his difficulty understanding it when its put on paper in front of him. Spoke about his very low moods, his insecurities and his strong belief he is stupid despite his sister being able to teach him math in just a few days one on one. The school referred him to Cahms, they came back and said he doesn't fit their requirements. Now we are here, with no help and my son sinking deeper. He is a quiet and very polite boy. He has been a young carer his whole life, and is very respectful.

Someone above posted about a general support assessment, is that something that can happen? If it appears we are wrong with it being ADD then would this assessment find out where the problem is? I don't think I can take much more of my sunshine child being so sad and down, its breaking my heart.

P.S He has one Nat3 class, the rest are under that level. I don't even think there is an actual name for under nat3. I cant find anything. When i was at school it was Foundation, Int 1, Int 2 etc. I believe int 2 is the same as Nat 3 but i could be wrong.

The point of the nat 2 and 3 is that pupils work at a level that is achievable, they can then build on it gradually. There's no point in sitting a nat 5 prelim and getting 5 %, that's just demoralising. Wrong assessment at the wrong time. It sounds like he has a real interest and skill in computing, that doesn't mean he isn't trying at the other subjects, just that his specific learning needs make them harder. Hopefully if you get a meeting with school you can see where he's at with each subject and what his progression could be. If his passion is for computing, what does he need to support that? Our school certainly seems to be a bit more flexible with students who are not doing the standard courses, so maybe he will have a chance to add in things that will help him. Have a look at local colleges to see what is on offer as they may be more flexible with entry requirements and definitely have additional support.
Is he getting support from a young carer group? Does he have hobbies? It seems like addressing the low mood would help too, the he might find it easier to think about studying etc. Getting outside and getting some sunlight. Some Riding for the disabled groups work with young carers, people struggling with mental health issues or having a hard time with life, maybe look around at something that would help his well being generally and then he will feel more able to cope with school. He might not take a standard path that you hear about but he should still be able to develop skills that help him take his next steps.

It seems like you’ve had a rubbish time getting help OP. Would funds at home allow a private assessment? A friend had to do this to get an autism diagnosis for her daughter.

I think you should request a meeting with his guidance teacher to find out where he is in all his subjects. I don't think anyone has ever explained the qualifications to you properly. I don't know what system you had in school OP, but the one in schools now is fairly recent. In any subject, eg English, a lot of students in S4 will sit National 5. This involves an exam, and they will have prelims before this as practice. They will be marked and get either and A,B,C or D grade (if they pass) or a NA (no award=fail). If a child is unlikely to pass this, they will be entered for National 4 instead. This involves coursework, which the teacher will mark, and are pass or fail. There are also National 2s and 3s. They won't do prelims. Sometimes someone might do National 3 in S3, and then N4 in S4. They will get a certificate from the exam board (SQA) to list the nationals they get, whether these had an exam or not they are real qualifications, they all appear on the certificate and can be used when applying for jobs or for things like college.

The learning support system in schools is supposed to be needs-driven, not diagnosis-driven. So support should be given to your son because he needs it, not because he has an official diagnosis. The fact he's doing N2s and 3s mean the school obviously think he does struggle with the curriculum! So they should be supporting him. Schools don't have lots of money for this, but some small group sessions or time with the school counsellor etc should not be hard to arrange.
I'd honestly make an appointment to speak to his guidance teacher. Say you want info about how he is getting on and what his presentation levels are. Mention he a young carer, and say you're very worried about him.

Thank you, everyone, for your replies, at this time we are trying to get a meeting with the school, but so far have been ignored. We have been in contact with the school reception for the last three weeks to arrange a call or meeting. They have told us they are passing on the message and they can't do more than that. If we haven't heard anything by the end of Monday we are going to request a meeting with the head teacher of the school. The guidance teacher seems to not have time for us and my son obviously needs help he is not getting and is being ignored not just by his teachers anymore but also by the person who is supposed to support him.

Three weeks is far too long! Your plan sounds good. Though are you counting time before Christmas as many schools have only been back for one week/a week and a half. They won't contact you in the holidays.

I can’t comment on qualifications as I’m in England but your son and mine sound very similar.

As his ADHD doesn’t really affect others (eg he’s not attacking people ) , I had to pay for an assessment. I’m not saying that your son would have had lots of help if he was violent but schools refer children with behaviour like that before the ones like our sons. My son has been sent out the classroom for not paying attention when sometimes he can’t even focus his eyes on the person that he’s having a conversation with. Luckily he leaves school this summer and will train in a subject that they don’t teach at school. He’s naturally talented so I’m in no doubt that he’ll be one of those people who are much more successful as an adult than at school.

It’s shit that the careers counsellor has been unavailable. I’d be sending emails to everyone and anyone who can get you some answers like head, head of year, form tutor etc I’d be making sure that they know that the careers counsellor is avoiding you because that’s wildly unprofessional behaviour

Hi OP

Firstly I wanted to say that I am not in Scotland so can't offer advice on the Scottish system.

However, I have been teaching in England for some time.

If your son struggles to learn, then in England this would have been picked up at primary school and you would have had reports of how much progress he is making.
If he as very behind then the school usually recommend that you get an eye test and a hearing test for him as often in young children these issues can be caused by eyesight and or hearing problems.

If these are checked and found to be ok, then the next step would usually be screening for dyslexia or similar. (I am assuming here no major behaviour issues that might point towards autism etc). This would highlight any problems he has - eg poor working memory etc.

Did any of this happen at any point in his schooling?

If it did, then you should have a report shared with you that show where his problems are. If not, then it may be worth asking the school for a dyslexia screening test (how is his reading?) or for an educational psychologist to see him.

In England, once you have this then the teacher can use this information to help them teach him, and he might also get additional help through small groups, additional maths and English support etc. Some schools are better at this than others.

Has he had any additional help? Small groups, maybe being taken out of languages for extra maths and English, that kind of thing?

I'm a careers adviser. The guidance counsellor and careers adviser are two different people and whilst the careers adviser may work in the school, they are not employed by the school. Not sure when your DC is leaving school (summer or winter?) but the careers adviser can advise on post school options that could enable your DC to gain some qualifications, work experience and/or employment. Contact the careers adviser via Skills Development Scotland.

I can relate to some of what you have written about your DS in your OP. My eldest is sitting Highers just now but is getting assessed by OT for dyspraxia - on the NHS waiting list currently. Could this be something to investigate with your DS too? He finds it difficult putting effort in, but there's also procrastination going on. He has just dropped out of one if his Highers he has been having massive struggles with. It's worrying as he does need lots of support to help with revision at home. You have my sympathies OP. It's a frustrating situation to be in for your DS but also as the parent.

You can self refer to OT on behalf of your DS. Have a look at your local NHS website. They often have a helpline on a dedicated day of the week where you can chat about the struggles your DS has and they will then let you know if they can go ahead with a referral. Hope this can help. Anything is worth a shot

@Roxell how are things going?

@Vettrianofan Well the school has referred him to an education therapist person? I can't remember her title, but after she meets with my son. If she believes there is something wrong or that he needs help with something she will refer him to the right people. Today someone from a sleep clinic has gone to the school to meet with him too because he doesn't sleep. His brain doesn't shut off (He lays there on his bed in the dark for hours doing nothing) and then when he's at school he falls asleep during class almost every day (The school has sent him home multiple times because he's asleep). He says he gets anxious during the night because he has school the next day and he knows he's just going to continue to mess up. (The school tells us to keep him off if he is so tired but then they inundate us with messages asking where he is - its highly annoying)

So stuff is happening, just slowly and I'm hoping someone helps, thank you for asking how things are going now.