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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Original poster

Higher taxes incoming on Tueaday

338 replies

Choosychoice · 14/12/2023 18:46

If you earn £100-£125k you currently pay income tax at a marginal rate of 63%. This isn’t enough for the SNP who next Tuesday are increasing it to 65%. 🤯 in what world is this a reasonable thing to do, when money is being wasted left right and centre by these imbeciles on embassies with no political purpose, ferry contracts so bad we pay 10 x the going rate, and a department for constitutional affairs who’s whole purpose is outwith the devolution agreement. We’ve just spent millions trying to get the GRR past section 35 when the case was so weak it took 46 seconds for the judge to throw it out and rUK are (quite rightly) considering asking for the Scottish government to pay their costs.

I don’t mind paying more taxes for the child poverty measures, but raising taxes to allow these fiscally incontinent 5 year olds to waste again and again and again is farcical.

OP posts:
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15
Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 13:08

Happyhippos21 · 20/12/2023 12:10

@SomeCatFromJapan yes! Always a wee bit and a wee bit. Its now a big bit if you ask me!

@BigBoysDontCry i dont understand either why some people paying the tax support it. As pp have said, if services were excellent and our roads well maintained, maybe we would see value for money. Im personally more of a free market thinker but i do appreciate the argument. The facts are though, our services are crap, roads a disgrace and not only that, but the powers that be defend the dreadful state. For my sins, i sat through question time week and the SNP rep on the panel was defending the PISA education stats. I would have so much more respect, and this goes across the board, for any politician who put their hands up and said, 'the results are unacceptable we have made a big mess of it, we need to make changes and we will make it better'.

As a pp said, we have an ex social worker in charge of the budget. Why are people not being given jobs based on skills or previous experience. When you apply for a private sector job you need to meet or somewhat meet a specification. For scot gov it seems like putting your shoes on means you can run the country.

@Vettrianofan i appreciate what you say about people with disabilities but your friend with the small business shouldnt need to stifle her earnings to accomodate her benefits. This is bad for her and bad for the scottish economy. If there was a total household threshold rather than individual perhaps your friends business could flourish, the partner look after the disabled child as you have described and they be entitled to his portion of the benefits. The current system doesnt sound like it is benefitting anyone in your friends family even if it allows them to get by. Regarding the child on EMA, if they want to stay on at school then brilliant but i hope the reason is not purely that they are happy with the £30per week otherwise I dont think the entitlement should be there.

@BYDboard agree, theres no way 40% of the country are not paying tax due to disability. There are obviously a minority who cant work but it certainly shouldnt be considered the norm.

I always worry about Scotland for employment. A huge % of the workforce is public sector. Outwith the central belt apart from north sea oil, we dont have lots of opportunities. I might be wrong but my take on it is that large portions of scotland the only opportunities will really be farming or hospitality. For your average worker on a farm or in a hotel/restaurant, there is limited career progression and you will never earn big salaries. WFH will have helped the situation but id assume only for the minority.

@Happyhippos21 my nephew isn't the only who stays on at school just to claim EMA - loads of children do who would actually be better suited to going to the local college or doing some kind of apprenticeship especially if they are not academically minded. Not everyone is.

Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 13:11

Also DH's family isn't bothered if they are not really making a profit from the business being self employed - why bother? They can get topped up to the hilt with benefits 🤷🏻 probably better off than my own household situation. But there you have it. Playing the system and they are not breaking the law in the process.

Dissimilitude · 20/12/2023 14:18

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 20/12/2023 13:06

If you are opposed to the changes in tax rates, what would you do instead to plug the funding gap in the budget? Which initiatives or benefits would you cancel, which public services would you reign in, or which taxes would prefer to increase?

And while im here I might as well ask about the ferry fiasco too since it's so often used in these discussions.

What would you have done instead?

Would you have outsourced the building from the start and potentially cost scottish jobs (I can only imagine what the labories would have said if that had happened)?

Or

When Ferguson Marine went bust would you have just walked away and started again (I can only imagine what the labories would have said if that had happened)?

First move is cancel free tuition. There's £900m of your £1.5Bn black hole right there. It's exorbitantly expensive, and has harmed Scottish universities who are actively disadvantaged by admitting Scottish students, a fact that has has led them to measurably alter who they admit to the top courses.

It's such an article of faith that "free tuition" helps society, but open your eyes and read the evidence and it's clear that the opposite is true - the system is full of misaligned incentives leading to perverse outcomes for students and institutions. I'd replace it with a system of cheap loans and tax breaks.

As for Ferguson Marine, the problem isn't this one decision, it's that they keep making decisions like this - always short term. Always with an eye to the nationalist gallery. They are completely immune to evidence. Gamblers fallacy is in play here, good money after bad. They keep doing it.

They are simply bad at governing.

Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 14:50

My children wouldn't go to university if the tuition wasn't free though🤷🏻 so why should they be left out of higher education just because we don't have the fees? That's wrong. Everyone deserves a chance regardless of their family income.

BigBoysDontCry · 20/12/2023 15:13

Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 14:50

My children wouldn't go to university if the tuition wasn't free though🤷🏻 so why should they be left out of higher education just because we don't have the fees? That's wrong. Everyone deserves a chance regardless of their family income.

They would just do what students in Ruk do. They'd get a fees loan and repay that in the form of an effective 'student tax' when they earn enough.

Virtually no one is paying fees up front.

The Scottish students would be on par with everyone else, have equal access to courses in top universities and also not feel obliged to study in Scotland.

Yes they'd have a bigger debt but they'd still be repaying that at the same level as they do their current maintenance loans, just for potentially longer.

Dissimilitude · 20/12/2023 15:21

Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 14:50

My children wouldn't go to university if the tuition wasn't free though🤷🏻 so why should they be left out of higher education just because we don't have the fees? That's wrong. Everyone deserves a chance regardless of their family income.

You know, we could have a system where I would have to pay for my kids (say, with support via tax breaks), and yours could go for free or cheap (if you pass the means testing), and we might end up with something better for everyone, and with no weird incentives that bias universities in Scotland against Scottish kids (which is blatant and easily identifiable in the figures), and which was affordable?

Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 15:26

I don't want them saddled with debt, thanks. The system is not perfect but better than the rUK IMO.

BigBoysDontCry · 20/12/2023 15:31

Well yes, there could be lots of systems but actually the extra debt doesn't really make a lot of difference as the percentage they pay back could be the same until they may want to pay it faster if they end up in high paying jobs.

Coming from a poor background I'm very debt averse so it takes a bit to get your head around that sometimes. I'm still of the generation that saves up to buy things!

BigBoysDontCry · 20/12/2023 16:04

Seeing lots of posts about having to pay for prescriptions if people move to England. How many prescriptions do they think the average person has? I appreciate people with chronic illnesses might have a lot, but I think there is a system in place (or should be) for that. I think the last time I had a prescription was about 1972.

pharmachameleon · 20/12/2023 16:37

The whole free prescription thing annoys me. Previously in Scotland anyone aged under 18 or over 65, anyone in receipt of any type of benefit and anyone with certain chronic medical conditions (eg diabetes, hypothyroidism etc) got free prescriptions. That then left only a small percentage of folk who had to pay for their prescriptions. In addition if anyone got two items or more per month on prescription they could purchase a prepayment card so it was better value.
In effect Scotland brought in 'free prescriptions for the rich' as almost everyone else was exempt!
I also think patients perhaps request and stockpile medicines more as they are free. If we paid a nominal amount perhaps we would more carefully consider what we request from the GP.
Anyway rant over!

CoatOfArms · 20/12/2023 16:43

I am on daily thyroxine and will be for life. Also HRT patches and vaginal estrogen cream.

If I were in England though I would still get them free as the underactive thyroid is one of those conditions which means free scripts, whatever the condition.

Happyhippos21 · 20/12/2023 17:03

Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 15:26

I don't want them saddled with debt, thanks. The system is not perfect but better than the rUK IMO.

Its not better if they cant get a place because the universities cant afford to take them on at the scot gov rate and therefore your childs place goes to an English, Welsh or international student who pays fees.

As an aside, its worth noting for those who need to send their kids to england or wales for uni because they cant get a place in Scotland, the courses there are 3 years so you save a years living costs than you would being in Scotland doing 4 years.

Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 17:36

Happyhippos21 · 20/12/2023 17:03

Its not better if they cant get a place because the universities cant afford to take them on at the scot gov rate and therefore your childs place goes to an English, Welsh or international student who pays fees.

As an aside, its worth noting for those who need to send their kids to england or wales for uni because they cant get a place in Scotland, the courses there are 3 years so you save a years living costs than you would being in Scotland doing 4 years.

Show quote history

I don't know of any young Scottish students who didn't get their place at a Scottish university locally, tbh.

Rainbowshit · 20/12/2023 17:48

@Vettrianofan so because you don't know anyone it's not happening? Really?

You understand that there's a cap on Scottish places? That necessarily means some Scottish students will miss out.

Scottishskifun · 20/12/2023 17:58

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 20/12/2023 13:06

If you are opposed to the changes in tax rates, what would you do instead to plug the funding gap in the budget? Which initiatives or benefits would you cancel, which public services would you reign in, or which taxes would prefer to increase?

And while im here I might as well ask about the ferry fiasco too since it's so often used in these discussions.

What would you have done instead?

Would you have outsourced the building from the start and potentially cost scottish jobs (I can only imagine what the labories would have said if that had happened)?

Or

When Ferguson Marine went bust would you have just walked away and started again (I can only imagine what the labories would have said if that had happened)?

Start with not wasting money on pointless court cases there's several million quid straight up.
Let's add in several million for a "scottish covid passport" that wasn't needed when they were offered to use the UK one but nope had to have a saltire on it!
Get rid of pointless scottish govt "foreign offices" which shouldn't be there plus pointless trips.

Then we can throw in ferry's but also the bonuses payed and let's not forget the ferry staff bill for 2 years......when they are in a dry dock!
How would I handle ferry's differently....maybe by doing actual quotes and tendering process which doesn't have fundamental contract law errors.

Finally tution fees should be subsidised not free. I went to uni in Wales they have a reasonable system of grants available for Welsh students from different backgrounds.
Maybe stop funding the bedroom tax too that will save a sum right there and maybe actually free up social housing sizes for families who are desperate.

I'm going to love to read the how many have actually paid this new tax band you can bet it's way lower then they hoped for.
45% paying no tax.....sorry but definitely not all disabled, carers or low income pensioners. I say this as someone with a long term health condition I have reasonable adjustments in place at work and a load of equipment.

Igneococcus · 20/12/2023 18:40

Would you have outsourced the building from the start and potentially cost scottish jobs (I can only imagine what the labories would have said if that had happened)?

Yes, I would have tried to find the most reasonable offer with the highest likelihood of the ferries being delivered on time and on budget given that there are about 100 000 people living on Scottish islands which are utterly dependent on reliable ferry services. The impact the unreliable service has on peoples' lives and businesses is immense.

Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 18:43

Rainbowshit · 20/12/2023 17:48

@Vettrianofan so because you don't know anyone it's not happening? Really?

You understand that there's a cap on Scottish places? That necessarily means some Scottish students will miss out.

I am not saying that, but going by what I know anecdotally.

Ineedaholiday23 · 20/12/2023 19:38

Vettrianofan · 20/12/2023 17:36

I don't know of any young Scottish students who didn't get their place at a Scottish university locally, tbh.

Show quote history

Same here.

I myself have two. Definitely have to take the comments on here with a pinch of salt!!

Rainbowshit · 20/12/2023 19:54

I's very clear Scottish students are missing out because of the cap on places. Despite your anecdata.

It was reported in 2020 that, for the previous academic year, the unofficial 'cap' had led to only 55% of university applications from Scottish students being offered a place at Scottish universities, compared to 74% of English students at Scottish universities

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmscotaf/54/5406.htm#:~:text=29%20It%20was%20reported%20in,about%20impact%20the%20free%20tuition

CoatOfArms · 20/12/2023 19:56

My anecdata is that some of DD's friends got flat rejections from either Edinburgh or Glasgow despite having the grades. Probably because we are in one of the least-deprived areas.

BigBoysDontCry · 20/12/2023 20:19

I live in a non deprived post code and know several local DC that didn't get Scottish places but I have no idea about their grades etc.

Rainbowshit · 20/12/2023 21:35

Guess that's the end of the finance sector in Scotland. Not a chance of being able to attract the best talent.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/20/english-graduates-scotland-tax-rate-humza-yousaf-snp/

Morethantimeandmorethanlove · 20/12/2023 22:17

There have been many articles in the press about the unfair cap on the number of Scottish students. The Scottish government sets the amount of funding it gives to Scottish universities every year to cover free tuition. However this has led to an increase in the number of Scottish applicants being refused a place . This funding looks like it benefits Scots , but it has also created a cap on the number of Scottish students.

Wbeezer · 20/12/2023 22:35

Almost all Scottish students still get a place at a Scottish Uni if they want it, but it won't necessarily be the kind of uni their grades would have got them into 20 years ago and they have to have flawless grades to be in with a chance on many courses that didn't used to mind the odd B.

Rainbowshit · 20/12/2023 22:35

Wbeezer · 20/12/2023 22:35

Almost all Scottish students still get a place at a Scottish Uni if they want it, but it won't necessarily be the kind of uni their grades would have got them into 20 years ago and they have to have flawless grades to be in with a chance on many courses that didn't used to mind the odd B.

I's very clear Scottish students are missing out because of the cap on places. Despite your anecdata.

It was reported in 2020 that, for the previous academic year, the unofficial 'cap' had led to only 55% of university applications from Scottish students being offered a place at Scottish universities, compared to 74% of English students at Scottish universities

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmscotaf/54/5406.htm#:~:text=29%20It%20was%20reported%20in,about%20impact%20the%20free%20tuition