Saffas moving to Scotland

barelykeepingup · 2023-12-02T11:00:43+00:00

Hey ladyguys, we are a South African family moving to Scotland end 2024. We are self employed so can live anywhere in the UK but we love Scotland (we’ve been before and my MIL was born in Bridge of Weir) it just makes sense for us and we are excited to become honorary Scots (Irn Bru Extra sugar free, haggis, tartan, shortbread, tablet, wild swimming, a short drive to the mountains, ocean, or city) - it just feels way more like home compared to down South in Hertfordshire where I have also lived before. As you may or may not know South Africa is (and always has been) a political dumpsterfire but our move is not really a running away, but wanting to give our kids the opportunity to see more of the world which is very hard from the Southern tip of Africa for many reasons. Hubby and I also in our forties and need a change of scenery badly. Waffle aside, my questions are as follows: My daugter will be 12 in March 2025 - should we have her in P7 to start in Jan 2025 or do we delay our move over and go straight into S1 in Aug 2025. My son will be 5 and a half in Jan 2025 - he wont be able to read and write as that is only taught at age 6 turning 7 here. Will that be a problem - when do kids do that over your side? Finally, what is the broad stance on. religion? We aren’t into organised religion (110% respect people who are religious though) but atheism for example is deeply frowned upon in SA (Im not atheist by the way - I am just not into organised religion which people also cant wrap their heads around). Thanks a mil!

BigBoysDontCry · 02/12/2023 11:46

Exciting move! I'd put your daughter into p7 in January and she might have a chance to make some friends (at least for the summer). Friendship groups often change at high school anyway so wouldn't be a disaster either way.

Your son will be fine starting p1 after the summer. Children start here with all sorts of levels of ability. Teachers will be happy if he can generally do things like put his shoes and coat on etc.

As for religion, it's very much live and let live. I have friends who are church goers but I'm very much an atheist. Religion only impacts your life if its of interest to you and your family. You can opt out of religious worship in school for example. In practical terms that's usually an occasional service at Easter/Christmas and maybe some assemblies that will be broadly about morals and kindness ime.

prettybird · 02/12/2023 16:44

I was born in South Africa but as I've been here since I was three, I consider myself to be Scottish My dad still had a Sourh African accent when he died in August, despite having been here for nearly 60 years

If I were you, I'd come in January - not so much for your dd, as in some respects, she'd be as well starting straight into S1 in August when most friendship groups will be re-set when they go to secondary school, but for your ds. If he's going to be 5.5 in January 2025, that presumably means he's turning 5 in June/July 2024, therefore if he were in this country, he'd be starting P1 in August 2024. So he would be going into P1 in January 2025.

Not being able to read or write won't be too much of an issue as P1 is still pretty much play based. Good schools will be able to cope with a range of abilities. My own ds didn't "get" reading until he was 6.5 (half way through P2), which they assured me was within normal variations, especially for boys. They gave him loads of extra 1:1 support before changing him to the middle language group so as not to damage his confidence (the little tyke had been learning his books off by heart all through P1 and couldn't actually blend ). He moved back up to the top language group some time in P4 (with us doing a lot of independent reading with him between P2 and P4 as he was between groups).

He's 23 now, free reads quite heavy books and political tomes and graduated last year in a reading heavy degree, into a job that involves a lot of writing and the ability to communicate clearly so he evidently did ok

We are atheists and it's never been an issue or even commented on. We're in inner city Glasgow and the schools where we are are very multi-cultural so no one religion is emphasised. At primary school ds had 4 assemblies (one a term): one for Diwali, one for Eid, one for Christmas and a Leavers' one, which were treated as learning exercises. The local catholic primary school is majority Muslim and although religion is more overt in it, it's still ok to withdraw kids from acts of worship (there weren't actually any at ds' non-denominational primary school). I think at his secondary there was a church service once a term but most kids didn't go to it, which the school accepted.

Good luck with your move!

Original poster

barelykeepingup · 04/12/2023 09:08

BigBoysDontCry · 02/12/2023 11:46

Exciting move! I'd put your daughter into p7 in January and she might have a chance to make some friends (at least for the summer). Friendship groups often change at high school anyway so wouldn't be a disaster either way.

Your son will be fine starting p1 after the summer. Children start here with all sorts of levels of ability. Teachers will be happy if he can generally do things like put his shoes and coat on etc.

As for religion, it's very much live and let live. I have friends who are church goers but I'm very much an atheist. Religion only impacts your life if its of interest to you and your family. You can opt out of religious worship in school for example. In practical terms that's usually an occasional service at Easter/Christmas and maybe some assemblies that will be broadly about morals and kindness ime.

This is such amazing feedback and puts me at ease. I am very much looking forward to a "live and let live" approach to life without the disapproving looks of "Let me pray for your soul as you have booked your one-way ticket to hell" that we are subjected to here.

OP posts:

Original poster

barelykeepingup · 04/12/2023 09:26

prettybird · 02/12/2023 16:44

I was born in South Africa but as I've been here since I was three, I consider myself to be Scottish My dad still had a Sourh African accent when he died in August, despite having been here for nearly 60 years

If I were you, I'd come in January - not so much for your dd, as in some respects, she'd be as well starting straight into S1 in August when most friendship groups will be re-set when they go to secondary school, but for your ds. If he's going to be 5.5 in January 2025, that presumably means he's turning 5 in June/July 2024, therefore if he were in this country, he'd be starting P1 in August 2024. So he would be going into P1 in January 2025.

Not being able to read or write won't be too much of an issue as P1 is still pretty much play based. Good schools will be able to cope with a range of abilities. My own ds didn't "get" reading until he was 6.5 (half way through P2), which they assured me was within normal variations, especially for boys. They gave him loads of extra 1:1 support before changing him to the middle language group so as not to damage his confidence (the little tyke had been learning his books off by heart all through P1 and couldn't actually blend ). He moved back up to the top language group some time in P4 (with us doing a lot of independent reading with him between P2 and P4 as he was between groups).

He's 23 now, free reads quite heavy books and political tomes and graduated last year in a reading heavy degree, into a job that involves a lot of writing and the ability to communicate clearly so he evidently did ok

We are atheists and it's never been an issue or even commented on. We're in inner city Glasgow and the schools where we are are very multi-cultural so no one religion is emphasised. At primary school ds had 4 assemblies (one a term): one for Diwali, one for Eid, one for Christmas and a Leavers' one, which were treated as learning exercises. The local catholic primary school is majority Muslim and although religion is more overt in it, it's still ok to withdraw kids from acts of worship (there weren't actually any at ds' non-denominational primary school). I think at his secondary there was a church service once a term but most kids didn't go to it, which the school accepted.

Good luck with your move!

I am so sorry for the loss of your amazing dad but it truly warms my heart that he retained his accent all those decades. I am also sure that if and when you visit South Africa your genes will tingle and you will find a special connection here (if you haven't already). Apparently (not an exact science though) accents are solidified at age 12 so it will be interesting to see how my daughter sounds but our little guy will definitely sound Scottish. DH and I will however go the grave sounding the way we do, hopefully still saying "Howzit" instead of hello like normal people. Using "wee" instead of little will however be inevitable!

Wonderful insight into education and spirituality - thank you for sharing your story! We are hoping to settle in East Dun - good schools, but an easy commute to the city for retail therapy and eating our snackage in George Square with the pigeons staring with no shame. The simple pleasures of Glasgow life and all that.

x

OP posts:

prettybird · 04/12/2023 10:11

We're actually not long back from a 3 week holiday in South Africa (in September): half in the North, including 4 nights in the Kruger with my aunt, and half in Cape, visiting wineries and seeing friends we've made in the wine industry. It was our first trip for 15 years, to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary. (Gap was for various reasons: we used to go about every 3 years).

Dad was not long back from 6 weeks in South Africa (he used to go once or twice a year after my mum, his soulmate, had died 12 years ago and he'd reconnected with an old uni friend, who'd known mum & dad as "the hottest thing on campus" so knew him well) when he died suddenly . I couldn't actually hear his accent (he was just my dad ) but dh tells me he still had it . My mum had completely lost hers but then she was much more of a mimic. She developed a good Bearsden/posh Glasgow accent (which I have too ).

i do feel an affinity to South Africa but i don't feel at all South African iyswim. (Although I'll support the Boks if they're playing England )

I was brought up (happily) in Bearsden/Milngavie and went to Bearsden Academy (and did well there ) but I'm a real convert to the South Side. We live in Pollokshields and ds went to Shawlands Academy and did really well there (including playing rugby ). He graduated last year from Aberdeen Uni and straight into a job in his niche field, which he's enjoying.

Shawlands Academy is also used to having kids arriving from all over the world - it's apparently one of the most multi-cultural schools in the UK (when ds was there and i was involved in the Parent Teacher Council, there were 54 languages spoken in the school ).

Loads of good coffee shops in Shawlands, Maxwell Park, Queens Park and Pollok Park (with the Burrell Collection) for green spaces and good public transport (buses, trains and subway - although the subway is really only walkable from my side of Pollokshields) and easy access to the motorways to get to the countryside/seaside to the north and south of the city.

And it's much cheaper than Bearsden/Milngavie

Scottishskifun · 04/12/2023 10:35

We have had quite a few SA relocate to our area in the last 2 years (North East) they have been very welcome and established a little community as well. Scotland vs SA rugby games were great fun!

Would say that religion is more of a factor in certain parts of Scotland so definitely alot of the Islands (especially outer Islands) and some parts of Glasgow not so much anywhere else though.

Original poster

barelykeepingup · 04/12/2023 14:05

prettybird · 04/12/2023 10:11

We're actually not long back from a 3 week holiday in South Africa (in September): half in the North, including 4 nights in the Kruger with my aunt, and half in Cape, visiting wineries and seeing friends we've made in the wine industry. It was our first trip for 15 years, to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary. (Gap was for various reasons: we used to go about every 3 years).

Dad was not long back from 6 weeks in South Africa (he used to go once or twice a year after my mum, his soulmate, had died 12 years ago and he'd reconnected with an old uni friend, who'd known mum & dad as "the hottest thing on campus" so knew him well) when he died suddenly . I couldn't actually hear his accent (he was just my dad ) but dh tells me he still had it . My mum had completely lost hers but then she was much more of a mimic. She developed a good Bearsden/posh Glasgow accent (which I have too ).

i do feel an affinity to South Africa but i don't feel at all South African iyswim. (Although I'll support the Boks if they're playing England )

I was brought up (happily) in Bearsden/Milngavie and went to Bearsden Academy (and did well there ) but I'm a real convert to the South Side. We live in Pollokshields and ds went to Shawlands Academy and did really well there (including playing rugby ). He graduated last year from Aberdeen Uni and straight into a job in his niche field, which he's enjoying.

Shawlands Academy is also used to having kids arriving from all over the world - it's apparently one of the most multi-cultural schools in the UK (when ds was there and i was involved in the Parent Teacher Council, there were 54 languages spoken in the school ).

Loads of good coffee shops in Shawlands, Maxwell Park, Queens Park and Pollok Park (with the Burrell Collection) for green spaces and good public transport (buses, trains and subway - although the subway is really only walkable from my side of Pollokshields) and easy access to the motorways to get to the countryside/seaside to the north and south of the city.

And it's much cheaper than Bearsden/Milngavie

Wow! Your story is so flipping interesting! I'm sure you can appreciate the beauty but also the problems of our country. But like I say, I'm about to turn 40, I need a change of scenery and even though we have a great life here, it's time for an adventure and Scotland seems like a very good fit for this Springbok family (and we too do not like the English rugby team insert evil Rugby World Cup Winner's laugh but will support Scotland any day of the week - even if we come up against you guys - no losers in our eyes). Also bombastic side-eye for your friends down South in Westminister - the Scottish-English political challenges are not lost on us. But I digress (and should also NOT be dipping my toes into politics that don't yet apply to me slaps self on the wrist).

No way, WE are looking at Bearsden and Bearsden schools, but lezbehonest, it's gonna come down to finding a home in a tough rental market (and depends on a school's capacity) so we will go where the fates decide is best. But you are intriguing me re city living and I do love my pigeon friends... I'm gonna check it out but I probably won't have the stamina for busy city living as I'm definitely #TooWeak and #NotAsCoolAsYou. :P Thank you so, so much for taking the time to write to me and again, hearing about your folks just warms my heart.

OP posts:

prettybird · 04/12/2023 14:35

Look up Pollokshields: it's the original planned garden (leafy) suburb. Also, Strathbungo, Newlands and High Shawlands. They're not exactly "city living" although they have all the advantages of being close to the city centre Sort of "inner city" suburbia

There are too many plenty of pigeons at the pond in Maxwell Park where we regularly go for a walk to feed the ducks, coots and moorhens There are two big ponds at Queens Park, which also have swabs, but it's not our regular walk (although the hills in Queens Park were apparently good for sledging at the weekend )

This was the view outside our house on Saturday: not enough traffic to warrant being salted, let alone cleared (we're in an "upper conversion" of a Victorian stone villa).

We were in Stellenbosch for some of World Cup which was......... interesting