Uni entry - better to resit Nat 5 Maths in S6 or…

[WorkBase]

…try and pick up Higher Maths in S6.

This is something I’ve been wrestling with. My DD got 5 x Nat 5 grade As (inc. Biology) a B (in Chemistry) and a C in Maths. She’s leaning towards doing a Biology/Chemistry-based degree at Uni so this year is doing Higher Biology and Higher Chemistry plus 3 other Arts/Humanities subjects.

Looking at various entry requirements, I can see that a B in Nat 5 Maths is often specified as a requirement above and beyond what the Higher requirement is. She says she’ll do Higher Maths in S6 alongside AHs in Biology and Chemistry but I’m concerned she’ll struggle after a year away from studying Maths and after only getting a C at Nat 5.

Even if she gets 5 As at her Highers next Summer (no guarantees of that of course) I’m concerned that some Unis like Dundee won’t consider her because she hasn’t got the required B at Nat 5 in Maths (at time of application) I’ve also learnt from this board that if she wants to do teacher training in the future she’ll need that Maths Nat 5 at a B.

I guess I’m just searching out opinions and experience. If she manages to scrape a C at Higher Maths in S6 then I guess that will stand as an equivalent of a B at Nat 5. But would it be less of a risk for her to take Nat 5 again in S6 with the hope of getting an A or a B - or would that not look great on an UCAS entry?

I also worry that it might impact her chance of getting good grades in her AH Biology and Chemistry if she was having to put more effort into getting her head round /catching up in Higher Maths.

St Andrews only asks that you have a B at Nat 5 in English for most of its Biology/Chemistry degrees. I know from experience that it chooses to take candidates that well exceed their standard Higher requirements and will favour students who have 3 science Highers (inc. Maths Higher) rather than the two they require as standard.

Basically I’m a little concerned - the school haven’t said anything. They know she wants to do a Biology/Chemistry-based degree but no one has flagged up this Nat 5 maths issue which I’m a bit disappointed about. I suggested she try re-sitting her Nat 5 Maths this year but she wouldn’t have it - saying it would be far too much work and wasn’t the fact that she passed good enough? Which, to be fair, I completely understood.

Sorry it’s a long one but thoughts would be appreciated if you’ve made it this far 🙂

You can encourage your DD to speak to her school careers adviser who will know more about uni entry requiirements. Sometimes the university will ask for a selection of 'sciences' of which Maths is just one option. If she has good grades in other sciences, it might not matter if she doesnt have the Higher.

I think you are correct to be concerned. She might struggle with the maths aspects of H Chemistry (and AH Chemistry) with a C at Nat 5 and only starting H Maths in S6. Might be better to concentrate on getting 4As in her Highers and upgrading Nat 5 Maths to A in S5 and then do H Maths in S6.

Do they offer H maths over 2 years at her school?

Worth also asking your school about their progression stats from Nat 5 to Higher for Chem/Biology/Maths. It was shocking at my DDs school but hopefully your will be better.

If she wants to study a science at university then I agree the Nat 5 needs to be addressed. You could try contacting the university admissions office or course admissions person directly and asking for their input. At one of the Scottish open days my ds attended there was someone interested in a course that required a Nat 5 B and they had a C at GCSE (would have been one year into A levels so no chance to pick up maths again), They were advised they might be able to do a summer course at the university instead. I don’t know how that works in reality though if you are up against good candidates who already have a B at Nat 5/GCSE.

I would share your reservations about doing Higher maths next year. The grade boundary for a B this year was 49/90 (54%) which means she did ‘get’ nearly half her Nat 5 course. Highers are very quick courses so not only will she have to recover after a year off, she is also missing a lot of the level of understanding a higher builds from.

Thanks all. Some useful comments and suggestions.

I’ve had a discussion with her a few months ago about the Nat 5 Maths issue. She dismissed out of hand studying Maths this year. She wants to concentrate on her 5 Highers. She said she’d work hard and I said we’d get her a tutor in S6 for Higher Maths.

Higher maths from C at Nat 5 is quite a big ask.
Definitely get a tutor

Our school would be unlikely to allow Higher Maths from C at Nat 5.it's quite a big step up

You are right to have concerns I'm afraid. She will be fine for Higher Chem but I would not recommend Advanced Higher without a solid grasp of maths. I would be looking for a Higher maths pass beforehand as a minimum to even take the course. The school should be advising on this. Better speaking to the faculty head of science (I am one of these btw), than anyone else. She's obviously academic in other areas so I would look at guiding her to consider more the biology options than any degree with a chemistry focus, as they will include a lot more maths. That is unless the maths grade was a fluke bad result and she was doing better during the year.

The gap will also be an issue. I didn't do AH maths after getting a B at Higher so had a year "off" maths in s6. I barely scraped through the compulsory maths course in first year at uni (chem degree) with a lot of effort as I had forgotten most of it.

She's got a great set of Nat 5s overall though so it's just about looking at sensible, realistic next steps. Good luck!

Thanks again all. She’s heads-down into supported study now and concentrating on getting good Higher results and bringing up her Chemistry marks. I think it would be counter-productive to start flagging up that her goal of doing Higher Maths in S6 might be unrealistic and that AH Chemistry might be too much of a challenge without having that solid grounding in Maths. I think it would knock her confidence and stress her out.

I might revisit once she gets her Prelim results and take it from there. She’s doing so well in all her other subjects and really wants to do well so I’ll concentrate on supporting her in the here and now and take it from there.

Would applications of maths N5 be sufficient for teacher training? She’d hopefully get an A or B in that in s6, especially with less subjects to do. If not I’d consider the higher but def get her a tutor.

as an aside I’d also consider a chemistry tutor. My son got an A1 (95%) in N5 chemistry but he found the higher very hard. I think there’s a fair amount of maths in it too. After just scraping a pass in his prelim we got him a tutor and he did get an A at higher but it was not easy for him and was his weakest subject in s5, even coming from an excellent result at N5.

Yes definitely going to look into a Chemistry Higher tutor and will also investigate Applications of Maths.