University in Scotland

[Watchagotch72]

I’m trying to get my head around the current situation regarding Uni applications / fee status / quotas for Scottish unis.

as I understand it the Scot gov funds a certain number of places at Scottish unis for ‘local’ (resident in Scotland) applicants, where they will effectively not pay any fees.

then there are ‘rUK’ places - students from the other home nations - where the fees are around £9,500 per year.

then there are international students, from everywhere else, who will pay up to £40k a year, depending on the course.

my question is: what happens to ‘local’ students who don’t get an offer for a ‘local’ place? Can they then join the ‘rUK’ student quota and pay the £9.5k per year fees?

Do most ‘local’ applicants get a ‘local’ place? What do they if they don’t?

if you’re Scottish applying to a Scottish University then you need to be careful where you are applying depending on your ‘demographic’. I’m sure there are some who don’t get any offers but all the DC of my friends have always found a place somewhere - it just might not be their first choose. A lot also depends on what you want to study, medicine, law, business, economics are all v competitive. And Art !!! - offer rates <5%!!

You can’t opt to pay fees but a good back of plan is an HNC/HND at a college with an articulation route into university.

If you are living in Scotland and applying to Scottish unis then that is the only criteria you can apply under. Just make sure you have a good variety of places in the five choices you have dependant of the grades they are looking for. Also make sore that you are not applying to all wildly over subscribed courses. Put in at least one left fold type of course as back up. I've not known anyone to not be offered a place at all within this criteria.

Such an interesting question.

It had never occurred to me that there might be locally resident students who didn’t get into a Scottish university - and thereby missed out on the free tuition.

Does it really happen? Scotland has a small population (smaller than the population of London!) and a good spread of universities. Does the government rigorously cap the proportion of Scottish students?

And what proportion of Scottish students actively choose to study in England / Wales / further afield? (I know there are some, though those I know are all postgraduates.)

I think it’s very unlikely that a Scottish student wouldn’t get a place at a Scottish university - the issue is that they are shared out between all the universities but some are more popular than others, so the pressure on those places can be huge. So go for courses at, e.g., Edinburgh or St Andrews, but make sure you have back-up options as well.

The point of the cap isn’t really to limit the number of Scottish students going to university, but to make sure all unis get a ‘fair share’ of them.

So the general feeling is that it’s better to stay in Scotland, not pay fees and do a subject / course that isn’t necessarily what you wanted to do?

The number of Scottish students going to unis outside Scotland is very small - only those with parents who are happy to pay fees when they can get a good education for free. The number of Scottish students going elsewhere because they can’t get into any Scottish uni is vanishingly small / non-existent - it’s the privileged and ambitious who might consider it.

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/experts-scots-pupils-squeezed-out-of-university-by-fee-paying-foreign-students/

@Watchagotch72 - I don’t think this would apply to many people - it’s more about doing the course you want to do but at a uni which isn’t your top preference. Of course it will apply to some people, if you only want to do something quite obscure that isn’t offered in many places, and then you’d have to make the decision about how much you want to do it and whether it’s worth the fees to you.

Going into rUK unis with only Highers can be tough as they are lower than A-levels, so you’d really want to make sure to have an Advanced Higher in the relevant subject.

Do you mean Scottish and Scotland when you talk about 'local' universities?

If someone doesn't get a place they don't go to that uni, same as any other

I don't think there is a general feeling. If someone wants to go to a university outwith Scotland it will be dependent on their family finances etc. Some will easily afford to do it and others will have to settle

I've 3 DC and virtually all their friends (who had the standard entry grades and wanted to go to uni) got a local place (not all at their top choice uni and some not for their first choice of course). Those that didn't generally did HNDs and joined degrees in 3rd year (again locally). Two (acting/music) went to England although both offered something locally but English courses more prestigious. One went to Oxford again for the prestige.

I suspect private schools (and state schools in naice areas) are different.

I worry that allowing Scottish students to pay and take a RUK place in Scotland (can't do that atm) will create even more inequality in the uni system with richer parents buying their offspring a RUK place if they don't get a local one. At my DDs uni over half the non local students were privately educated compared to only 25% of local students (compared to under 10% in population).

My DDs school were good at bigging up the newer Scottish unis and unis like Dundee and Aberdeen (away from Central Belt).

We live in one of the famously least-deprived areas in Scotland where lots of children apply to Uni. DS has just finished his second year at Uni, DD is starting in October. Both got 5 unconditional offers based on their Highers for universities in Scotland, including Edinburgh (DS) and Glasgow (DD). I have heard of SOME of their friends being rejected from one of Gkasgow/Edinburgh/St Andrews when they have the entry grades but no-one who has been rejected from all 5 choices.

Medicine and vet medicine have always been difficult to get into and this has not changed. Law is hard to get into in Glasgow and Edinburgh, easier at other universities - and doesn't have the issue with English or foreign students as Scots law is different.

But I totally get why the universities want RUk and foreign students. They pay £9500 a year or however much it is, the Scottish Government pay £1800 per year for every Scottish student.

I agree not a general feeling. My DCs schools were focused on careers and emphasised multiple paths eg no place on sports physio course then do sports science degree locally get relevant paid work experience during holidays and do physio conversion masters.

DD got 5 unconditional offers including Glasgow, Edinburgh and St Andrews based on 5 As in her Highers
The interesting thing for me was the fact that no one got into Edinburgh to do Law if they were not from a background deemed to be deprived on a post code basis

@Motheranddaughter

i wondered how that worked - it’s done by postcode? Are the grade requirements relaxed for students from more deprived postcodes?

Exactly.

It's about the index of deprivation, SIMD. Obvious issues with that - just because you live in a postcode where there are lots of deprived households, that doesn't mean you're deprived yourself. I am all for contextual offers and reducing the grade limits for kids with significant challenges - those who have grown up in care, asylum seekers etc. But the current system, especially at Edinburgh, means that on some courses kids don't get a place unless they are from the very most deprived postcode.

Am from a deprived background myself and did Law at Edinburgh
Would have hated to have special treatment

To those who say that it's unusual for a Scottish kid not to get a place at a Scottish uni, that's not true. Sure if you have top grades and wanted to study medicine, law, maths or physics, for example and don't get a place due to the numbers restrictions and low priority as not in a deprived postcode (usually central belt; the poor from elsewhere don't t count!) and you're prepared to take any place anywhere to study eg media studies at a former poly, then you'll get something! Otherwise you'll have to have parents with money able to pay English or overseas uni fees and when you qualify you'll stay in England meaning that the tiny percentage of Scots who actually pay higher rate tax (6-8 per cent) will not increase. It's crazy. I understand prioritising the deprived when it comes to funded places but why not allow the rest to pay to attend Scottish unis. Scottish kids are more likely to stay in Scotland and contribute to its economy long term

So (sorry if this sounds incredibly ignorant) there’s no way to apply for a Student Loan to study in England / Wales if you’re resident in Scotland?

Scottish students can get loans to student in England/Wales/NI, for the full tuition fees. Not entirely sure why several PPs have said that Scottish students need rich parents to send them to the rest of the UK?

It's at the bottom of this page;
https://www.saas.gov.uk/full-time/funding-information-undergraduate/funding

Dd went to uni in 2018 and didn't get her first choice at all but got her second choice after an interview. Her friend who should have walked the first choice (same course choices and unis) didn't get the first choice either but both felt the 2nd choice was the best at the time. For both of them they were classed a deprived high school but our postcodes for our homes would say otherwise.

Ds has done the college route due to covid stopping him having a different path. He did the NC then HNC then HND and goes into 3rd of uni in September. He needed the grade for his HND before the conditional turned unconditional. But he got places on the two further options from the HND, so he's quite chuffed and loving the route he went.

www.ucas.com/finance/student-finance-scotland#:~:text=Scottish%20students%20who%20wish%20to,apply%20for%20a%20fee%20grant.

Aha! Thank you - I’m glad I haven’t been labouring under a misapprehension all these years.

Obvious issues with that - just because you live in a postcode where there are lots of deprived households, that doesn't mean you're deprived yourself

i guess means-testing by household income / situation would be a more accurate way to identify ‘deprivation’ ?

I think you're confusing maintenance loans and tuition fees. I think you can get a student loan to study in England. It's paid for tuition fees that are state paid but limited in numbers in Scotland.