Move to good catchment or private?

[Heatherbell1978]

This feels like a potential 'Edinburgh-specific' conundrum so I decided to post here!

DS is P4 and we've decided to move him to private for P6. He's behind due to a combo of lockdowns in his P1 and P2 and crap teachers for P2 and P3. It's a good school with a good reputation but his class seems to have been dealt some unfortunate cards and they're all behind. Local state secondary is getting worse and has gone from mediocre to poor and I just can't deal with sending DS there if he's already behind.

DD is P1 and thriving but will follow DS to private probably for S1.

Numbers crunched and it'll be tight especially in the years they're both there, but affordable. We won't be living off beans but also won't be doing annual trips to Disney.

Anyway I realised that if we can afford private we can actually afford to take on a hefty mortgage and move to a 'good Edinburgh catchment'. Overall costs about the same but we'd obvs be investing in an asset with this option. But the house itself wouldn't be as good, despite better location. It would be similar to what our current house (suburbs with excellent transport links) was when we bought it but we've extended, invested in it, and made a really nice 4 bed home in a nice area (just shame about the secondary).

WWYD?

Private 💯
We live in a “good” school catchment area and if I had my time again I would definitely move to a cheaper house and private school.
Basically the Scottish state school system / curriculum for excellence is appalling (in my experience)

I think I would go state. Before I moved out of Edinburgh my daughters went to James Gillespie’s Primary, and I was really impressed. Big classes but great atmosphere, well run and friendly. The high school next door has a great reputation too, and it’s nice seeing the kids in hoodies and jeans! I think the way things are going independent schools will become increasingly expensive and it might be a minus rather than a plus in terms of university etc despite the opportunities.

I would tend to agree if it was James Gillespies I was looking at as it's essentially a pseudo private anyway but our budget to move wouldn't stretch to that catchment sadly.

That’s a shame. Nice area to live though as well as nice school. I lived right on the edge of catchment in a small flat with the children sharing a room but it still felt a good decision. I loved walking through Grange and seeing all the nice gardens! Hope you find somewhere you love, both school and house. It’s a hard decision, and everyone only has their own one or two experiences of schools so it’s hard to get a sense of the real differences between them.

My nephews go to James Gillespie High School and I must say I am shocked at the level of violence they are experiencing. Bullying seems to be rife, and violent children are not being controlled at all. It gets good exam results due to the nature of the catchment but has pockets of real problems. My brother is lucky that his kids are S1 and S2 and they are moving after the summer, but it was a real eye opener that some of the schools that are supposed to be good really are not. He’d say that James Gillespie catchment is a great place to live - but only if you can afford private.

Go private. We spent loads to get into one of the best catchments in Edinburgh and now 2 of the DCs go private. One is still in state but I'd move her if she wanted. She's happy enough. I wish I had bought a cheaper house out of catchment and sent them private from the beginning. Pastoral care is pretty bad in state. And the difference in education become really apparent in the lockdowns. Places like JGHS get good exam results because they shove anyone who's struggling down to lower sets and don't let them sit the exams.

Depends if you can definitely afford it (I still wouldn't as hate private education). But it sounds like you will scrape it in which case if Labour get rid of the ridiculous charity status of private schools you might struggle. And don't even consider putting one of the kids through it and not the other. Especially if the other is a girl. They will resent you forever.

We can afford it and still have money for holidays etc. We won't be holidaying in Disney and jetting off to Dubai at Easter but we don't do that now so not really an issue. I only mentioned it as I've read posts on MN where the general chat is if you earn less than £300k you can't afford private which is not a bracket we're in but we're high earners. Some might think we'd be scraping as a result but we won't be.

I've factored in fee rises as well which I agree needs to be considered. And no if one goes, both go. We would have one there for about 5 years before paying two sets of fees and then a 3 year period of double fees.

I've been crunching numbers and aside from the financial benefit of paying into an asset I'm not sure the move would be a good decision. House would be smaller, huge mortgage around our necks and kids still in a state school (albeit better than current).

If you do go private, have you factored in saving for university if you think your dc will want to go?

If you did go for a move and state school which ones would you be considering? Although, impressions about schools can be very subjective. I have had 2 DC at JGHS (one still there) and I don't recognise the comments previous posters have made about violence and bullying - both my DC have had really positive experiences there with good pastoral support and a nice cohort. So it can be difficult to make an objective decision.

I’d do different things for each child - I’d move your ds private and see how things go state wise for dd, you can get a tutor for her which will be less than both in private and allow the whole family to retain a bit more quality of life.

I have two very different kids. I did move them both private quite reluctantly and it has helped them hugely (several years on), but paying through your house price does at least come back to you when you sell.

University is a consideration but you have to get there and be happy in the interim and if the dc is getting so discouraged…I share concerns about the amount of change cfe is about to unleash on the upper end of school exams too and the SNP’s lack of documented ability to manage change well.

not an easy decision - good luck.

I have - we've had to do a bit of financial planning to get to this point and although I don't have a crystal ball, we're very diligent savers (lots going into pensions) so on paper it's all good. Don't get me wrong, we won't be retiring at 55! So the downside to this is the expectation that we will need to work until the kids are past Uni years. But on my side I will get some inheritance at some point.

Craigmount is the one we're looking at actually - lots of new builds around there but we'd be talking having to pay around £650k to get a house somewhere close to what we have here (4 beds plus study room etc). Mortgage affordable but sizeable! We couldn't go any higher than £650k

Well, you have 2 scenarios:

1. Better house, better education, no Disney.
2. Worse house, worse education, no Disney.

What is more, when they go off to uni, you will still be paying through the nose for a house you didn't really want to live in, whereas the financial pressure of private school is only for a few years then stops. Calculate the extra mortgage interest paid + moving costs, and it might not be that much of a saving with moving anyway.

If my kids were able enough to get good grades wherever, I would go state. Otherwise I would choose private. Some top Scottish unis courses have widened access so much so that anyone without a contextual offer may not be considered.

Last year Edinburgh uni only gave out offers to Flag plus (contextual) applicants for seven of their courses including law and English lit. Widening participation is great as long as it doesn't preclude all other kids from being in with a shot.

Up until recently I was pretty comfortable that my kids would do well at state. Both very bright. But it's fair to say I'm not convinced of that anymore for DS do genuine reasons to be considering the private option.

Yes I had similar prior expectations - but my opinion is that cfe and the pandemic and post pandemic situation in some schools particularly disadvantages some children. Add to that the ethos of not giving parents much information to support learning at
home and both parents working near to or full time and I can understand more children aren't managing when we did.

I think you should go private because you sound very criticial of the state system and that's not going to change just because you send your dc to Boroughmuir or Craigmount or Firrhill etc. If you become unhappy with the private school you can move them. If you move house and are then unhappy at the state school, you're kind of stuck.

We chose ‘good catchment’ but as the time got nearer we were concerned about the levels of violence/poor teaching at the state option and have chosen private instead. Luckily we had the option to do that.

Not at all - my kids are in state now. I have specific issues with my catchment school, not state education in general

So if I'm reading it right, the private option means you could stay in your current property? If that's right then it sounds like private is the right option, as a house move in itself would incur all the costs of stamp duty and moving, and taking on a bigger mortgage as the interest rates are rising is a scary prospect.

DS goes to Watsons and we're very happy with it - mind you it's paid for by DGPs so our standards are possibly lower than others.
It depends very much on the type of DC you have. My friends DD goes to Firhill and seems to be thriving there and is on track to get 5 As in her highers.

DS is very much a "don't draw attention to yourself DC" but because of the crowd he hangs out with, the expectations from the school and the way they are spoon fed for the exams, I hope he will also do well in his Highers. I'd just warn that going private is not a natural bullet for academic success.

What did OP do in the end?

Having had children at both ‘good’ catchment schools and private I think the answer is that it depends on the child, which may or may not be helpful.

If your child is bright and driven enough then do you really think they will not be able to achieve what they want to in a school like Gillespie’s/Boroughmuir/Dunblane/Mearns etc..?

If you feel they need more support for whatever reason, whether that’s socially/academically or a recognised ASU then go private.

My older kids went to an East Ren secondary, my younger went to a private in Glasgow.

Genuinely apart from sport and music there wasn’t much difference between them.

Im not bashing the private option, but it cost a lot of money for no real academic benefit and there was actually a social disadvantage as my youngest wasn’t able to build close friendships with local kids the way my other’s were.

If you do send them private don’t think it will protect them from bullying/violence, some of the stories I heard from my daughter’s school were worse than what happened at mine, which was a deprived school on the eastern fringe of Glasgow.

Private school bullying may not be as violent but can be a lot worse emotionally/psychologically.

It’s not just the violence in state schools but it’s the disruption to lessons. It’s absolutely endless. And it’s everywhere. No state school no matter how ‘good’ are immune because the school is not allowed to remove the violent pupils. Private schools are. State school would be fine for pupils who can teach themselves from the textbook and who are level headed enough to witness the violence and not be traumatised by it. That’s been my relatives experience of James Gillespie anyway.

Education in this country is dire and getting worse.

@Sweetpeel is this junior or senior school? Did they go to both!junior and senior?

It is a bit worrying as I thought James Gillespie was meant to be one of the better schools in Edinburgh?

Zombie thread!

I'd love to know what the OP chose though

Senior. James Gillespie’s is falling down the rankings rapidly now. It always used to be up there with Boroughmuir, but in the latest survey I think it had slipped to 7th best Edinburgh school.