Should you be able to defer school start date

[Blinkingstars]

Following on from another thread, in England I believe kids have to start school at the start of September year that they are age 4 on 31st august. So the oldest possible child in the year is born on 1 September. In Scotland we have the deferred system, where those born in January and February get to choose. Shouldn’t we just say that if a child e.g. turns 5 in 2023 then they start school in the summer of 2023, or have some other set date rather than parents getting to pick and choose?

yes some kids may not be perceived as ‘ready’ but a lot of parents just game the deferral system to suit them. Want them to be most advanced in the class - best to defer them. Nursery fees unaffordable- send them as early as possible. It can also be a big source of angst for many parents with January / February birthdays. Should they / shouldn’t they. Blah, blah, blah. It must take up endless time assessing deferral applications and appeals in councils too. One of my kids had a child so old he was a deferred September birthday, and was always bored and kicking off in class, (as well as totally dominating school sports days for years).

A composite with 2 years is max 25, 3 or more is 19. I came across in on a government website.

Which may well be true but as many of us know, this is not a LEGAL limit. My daughter's year was a "bulge" year with loads of extra intake for some reason, she was in a P1 class of 25, a P2 and P3 class (still infants) with 32.

DS was in a P6/7 composite class as a P6 with 30 children in in because of the "bulge" year and limited space in the school - they gave them an extra 0.5 of a teacher. Head did say that although these limits might be on the website that they were allowed to put more kids in classes in "exceptional" circumstances, and having loads of extra kids was exceptional.

I'm struggling to see how a 13 year old could be in P7. That would mean a child born March-June (so already one of the oldest) being deferred and starting school in the August just after they had turned 6. That's not what anyone is suggesting, the deferral in Scotland is really only for kids born September - February, and nearly everyone who does defer their child has a Jan/Feb born. I was born in May, I turned 12 in the final term of P7, was well into puberty, was the tallest child in the school by some way, and had started my periods about 6 months before. There were sanitary bins in the girls' toilets and this was the early 80s.

The Scottish system offers flexibility. Defer, don't defer. Do what's best for your child and family.

I agree. The flexibility has been good for us so far. It gives parents the choice to do what's best for their child's needs. I think this is more beneficial to children than having to fit into a narrow system.
There won't be 13 year olds in P7. There will be children who turn 13 in the first 2 months of S1. Still 12 in P7.
As a previous poster said it's not about age, it's about children having different social and emotional levels despite their age.
The curriculum for second level spans p5 p6 and p7 which children will all achieve at different times.

We're deferring DD, she'll be 12 when she leaves primary. It shouldn't be possible to be 13, as someone who turned 13 during p7 would have a pre summer birthday which would mean they wouldn't have been eligible for deferral (as they'd have been 5 prior to August in the normal starting year)

E.G. born May 2010, would have to start school in August 2015, they would turn 12 in May 2022 when they'd be in P7

Born September 2010 and deferred, starts school in August 2016, turns 12 in September 2022 when they'd be in P7. They'd turn 13 at high school in S1.

But if she's anything like her older sister she'll be starting her periods in primary school regardless of deferring. Loads of girls start their period in primary now, as you say.

My DD is in a P3 to P5 composite. She's a P3 and happy with the class. Think she's working near the top of the class in maths despite this. My main issue is the arguments she has with us that X (in P5) has a phone and she doesn't - well you're 7 so no!!! Probably also gets exposed to discussions about TV she's not old enough for yet.

Most of the year are likely to be 17 when leaving school surely - It's just March to June that won't be. She'll be 18 when starting uni assuming she stays for 6th year.

DS is November. He's not deferring. He's tall and solid and capable of sitting and listening. Also gets taught stuff at home by his sister... It might be a P2/1 composite depending on numbers in cohort - the school is quite unfashionable. Should be fine as the P1 teacher is very experienced

The Scottish Government has given the right to deferral with no questions asked for any child who will be 4 on the first day of school (i.e. mid August). It's up to local authorities whether they fund the childcare for that extra year.

Our local authority just changed policy to fund this, and it's made deferral much more popular. DC is a December baby and the majority of children we know around his age (say November to February babies) have deferred.

We have - why would you not say yes to an extra year of education (albeit at nursery)? Plus it allows for a later leaving age at the end of secondary.

I know what you mean about folk wanting to have eldest/ most advanced child in class. My middle child is November born. School is in a middle class/ rural area and nursery is very supportive of deferral. So my choice was to send him at 4 and eight months into a class where some of the children would start turning six in a few months when he’d just be 5.

Small school and all the kids were at nursery together so I knew who deferred from the previous year. I just felt that he might struggle.So I deferred and I’m assuming the next lot deferred and will forevermore and the intake year pretty much runs Oct-Oct.

This can be problematic for people who move to the school and they haven’t deferred and their kid is wondering why half the class is a year older than them and they are four months younger than the next youngest child.

I had no issues getting an extra year of funded school nursery. Possibly a different decision if that hadn’t of been an option.

Feel free to move to another country where there's a much better education system. Please don't feel tied to the Scottish education system if it's really not up to your expectations.

@MathsNervous it is well known though that the Scottish education system has been on the decline and has gone from being world recognised to being the worst in the UK. There have been several damning reports into this and showing reduction in literacy skills leaving primary.

I don't agree with the other pp on the deferral concerns but simply stating they should move to other areas doesn't solve the issue either.

As parents we should all be concerned with the drop in educational standards which have occurred.

I think there's plenty wrong with the Scottish education system but the ability to defer 4 year olds starting school until they're a little older isn't on that list

I have children just at the start of the curriculum and others near the end. I would agree that I am not a massive fan of CfE. But education does begin at home and there are worse systems out there.

Yes flexible deferral is a significant strength, clearly some disagree but i believe it’s superior to any mandatory starting age given children are individuals

Except it’s not flexible.

So many are doing it that even those who didn’t want to defer, now feel compelled to do it, otherwise their child will be the youngest by some way.

May have to disagree on that! Your child being tbe youngest may suit kids who get on better with older children.

It's completely flexible as it's parents choice!
In DS2 preschool class (24 although not all in same days) 14 are eligible for deferral there are 4 which are deferring (my DS being one of those!) so it's not a given all parents will defer (it's a private nursery). Most of the other parents I have spoken to feel their child is ready for school which is completely understandable and their choice. Just like it's our choice to defer our DS as we don't think emotionally he is ready although academically he is.

It should be based on the individual child. Yes some people game the system but we based our decision on the advice from the teachers who assessed him, and also the fact that he would have been 17 at uni. Lots of research saying starting school slightly younger is ok but the impact of being younger is more obvious when they leave and go to uni.

My DD was born on the 28th February and I have created this decision since the day she was born. She turned 3 a few weeks ago.

She has an older sister at school so she had some exposure to the learning, and pretends to do the homework/ reading. She's very capable physically. She settled into nursery immediately and loves it, and they say she's very independent and happily plays with anyone including the 5 year olds. Also, I started school at just turned 4 (in England), and I did well.

But, on the other hand, I was a skinny child and though I started periods at 12, I didn't physically develop (at all, really), whereas DH's female relatives are all heavy women with massive breasts. If she takes after me she'd be OK being the oldest, but if she takes after women on DH's side it would be awful to be so developed earlier than other girls and that would be hugely exacerbated if she was deferred.

I'm so completely torn, and I wish it wasn't a choice.

Not created, dreaded. Autocorrect.

@AuContraire I wouldn't worry too much about her physical development. I'd base your decision on what nursery think in a years time.
You'll register her for school in January and if you want put in the deferral form. It can be withdrawn right up to the day before they start school.

You have to decide based on her and her progress. Some 4 year olds are ready for school Some aren't.

There is a huge range of development in any p6/7 class. If your daughter is an early developer she'd be far from alone. Dd was like yours at nursery stage and on starting p1 (December birthday so option to defer not there) the gap didn't start showing til later in primary. I think it was half way through p5 when I started noticing she'd be far better suited to the year below.

In what sense do you think she'd have been better in the year below?

I deferred my February boy because he had 0 attention span but in lower primary I felt the way work was being presented to him was too young / babyish and turned him off.

The end of P1 he came out of school "look mum I've got a book for little brother". The book was a picture book intended for him

It pops up as a regular topic of conversation niether my friend who didn't defer or I who did are 100% convinced we did the right thing.

You have to make the decision based on your child at the time.

She won’t be so much more developed that all the other girls. By deferring you are making her one of the oldest in the class instead of one of the youngest. That’s by days or weeks, not years . There will be March and April born girls just a few days younger than her.

Is not at all uncommon for girls to start their periods in P6.

The big issue isn’t P6-7. It’s S4-6.