Duty of care on school to protect children

[Damagedkidsinmainstreamschool]

There is an extremely volatile and violent girl at my kids school and she has taken against my daughter. My daughter is clever, musical, from a stable middle class family, doesn’t want for anything and I assume the attention she gets for her musical talents in particular are why she is getting targeted.

the bully is from a home where her brother and father are in prison and her mother is an alcoholic. The child is also regularly drunk at school. In the past week this child has tried to physically assault my child three times. A staff member has managed to intervene every time - so far. She keeps telling my daughter that she’s going to ‘f’ing get her’. This child remains in mainstream schooling and whenever I discuss it with the school they are all ‘but she’s got a terrible home life, poor her’ etc. I don’t care. I need to protect my child. Others at the school tell me she is absolutely the type to take a knife into school. She swears at and throws things like books at teachers regularly.

what do I need to do to protect my child? Do I tell the school I will sue them if they fail in their duty of care to my child in the hope that they take this seriously? I want them to remove this extremely dangerous person from the school so my child can safely receive an education but they just keep saying how damaged the poor girl is. They cannot see that they have a duty to protect my daughter first and foremost. This girl clearly needs removal to some sort of pupil behaviour unit. Does such a thing exist still?

East Renfrewshire if that makes any difference.

The school probably cant afford to remove her to a unit, it costs a bomb. It isn't easy for the school to expel, either.

It is grossly unfair on both children, your daughter deserves a safe learning environment, and this other child needs specialist support she probably isn't getting. And remember, "getting rid" of this dangerous child now doesn't change the fact she will still be in your community for the next 60 years! so it is a problem you want solving, rather than avoiding.

There is no easy answer, except be the squeaky wheel, be on them every day, email a report of every tiny threat or issue - email, so you have all the records, but phone/meet as well

I hope this poor child gets proper support, and your daughter is left in piece. I really feel for you. Is moving your daughter an option you would consider?

It doesn't make any difference and neither does your middle class label.

You need to ask for a meeting with the HT and head of safeguarding and get it put (in writing if possible) that you will be informing the police the next time this girl makes any attempt to "get" your daughter. Then you need to follow through. I'd copy in the LEA as well.

You need clear requests in writing centred round your DD eg they should be in separate classes; a different space provided for breaks. If this is impacting your DD's MH then a letter from her GP.

They can't discuss the other child with you. And you shouldn't rely on hearsay from other parents about the other DC. If she is coming to school drunk then safeguarding and SS are already likely to be involved.

Ultimately, if you don't trust the school to keep your DD safe, then I'd consider moving her.

I’m afraid the school has a duty of care to both children equally. I would report every threat to the head teacher/school board/police. My legal training was in the UK but I assume the same principle that assault can be verbal as well as physical also applies in Scotland in which case I would treat every incident as an assault and insist the school does likewise. Ultimately though do you want to wait until this kid follows through? I know you shouldn’t have to do so but is there an alternative school for your daughter? I would find it hard to leave a child in such a vulnerable situation. One of my kids was assaulted by a teacher in an English school and we had to move him as the school wouldn’t deal with it so you have my sympathy.

whenever I discuss it with the school they are all ‘but she’s got a terrible home life, poor her’ etc.

Really?

This is way out of line.

As is your mention of your background wing so much better.

I wouldn't rely on the school to keep her safe. I'd move your daughter ASAP. I'd also be making police reports about the threats that this girl is making.

The school haven't told you that about the other girl so you're basing this on the rumour mill.

If on the off chance school have actually said this to you then they're massively breaching confidentiality and I'd base my decision to remove my dc on that as much as worries over violence.

But I'd remove my child if I was concerned she wouldn't be adequately protected. You can't force them to exclude or have the other girl educated elsewhere, but you can do that for your dd.

I only mention the middle class stuff as I think that is one of the reasons my child is being picked on. Stability that this girl doesn’t have. And her brother was excluded for drug dealing and later imprisoned so this is not rumour mill. It’s frustrating to move her as it is a school with an excellent reputation and there are many reasons why we wanted our child to go to it. We chose our house for the catchment area. Victims shouldn’t have to make accommodations but I think we will have to.

there are no governors in Scottish schools are there? I think independent panels of school overseers would be a good thing.

Contact the police if you haven't already.

Contact the head of education for the council if you haven't already.

Keep a diary of everything too.

Secondary HOY here

School have 2 options for poor behaviour of this level

Managed move: the other girl’s mum would have to agree with this and if she does, one mistake at her temp school and she is bounced back to you

permanent exclusion: Parents seem to this we can do this off the cuff. There is a huge rally atm to ban these entirely (even for pupils that sexually assault one another) and the protection of vulnerable pupils like this girl is a key reason. The threshold for a px is so high now that you generally only get one for a knife or possession of drugs. Assaults/threats like you describe generally only get a ‘fixed term exclusion’ which is 1-5 days suspension basically.

Please don’t think that the school are favouring either child, do you think the teachers want chairs thrown at them every day? Children are (rightly or wrongly) given many many many more chances to remain where they are than they did when you would have attended school. It’s a hard situation and one that I can’t express an opinion on in a professional setting but it is sad that the needs of one outweigh the safety and learning of dozens more.

Move your dd.

Move her school if you can.

The biggest difference in good and poor schools really comes down to how engaged the kids which comes down to how much they are pushed at home and the number of kids with tutors doing 121.
All teachers have the same qualifications.

Even though you have posted on Scotsnet you are getting English advice from lawyers trained in the "UK" they say. Then they assume Scotland uses the same principles. Where to start on what that means since Scotland as any lawyer knows is in the UK but has a different legal system. Drop the middle class stuff. Focus on your child in all communications with school. Clearly state by e mail followed up with meeting with HT the issues and ask for a detailed risk assessment. School are obliged to risk assess after a violent incident. If you don't like what is proposed escalate to the director of education at the LA. Sadly in Scotland schools can do little to exclude but parent power works. Good luck.

Thanks for the input - and indeed all posters.

I’d really love to know what you think would solve situations like this because the current situation is failing my daughter, the other child and the staff involved.

I'd move your daughter, sadly very little consideration is given to the child being threatened or assaulted as all the schools time and resources are spent on the aggressor, not that this is what the school wants to do often!
You'll probably get lots of snarky, bitchyness here as you dared to mention the verboten MC phrase!

I think the issue about being mc isn't really relevant. In a good school in East Ren, most of the cohort will be mc.
Also nearly everyone commenting here is commenting from a Scottish perspective. I've no idea why a poster thinks it's English lawyers commenting

The MC bit doesn't matter a hoot, bullies are in every school inc the private schools.

The MC bit doesn't matter a hoot, bullies are in every school inc the private schools.
Op should move he kid schools if she can.

This.

There are no easy answers in these situations . It is really hard for schools to exclude children and this child will be acting out due to trauma and may be classed as a vulnerable child - it doesn't help your poor child though. Sadly abuse and neglect causes this type of behaviour and schools have to try and contain it. Unfortunately it is unlikely that this child would be excluded unless she did attack another child . I doubt the police would do anything to be honest . Your best bet is to go down the safeguarding route and ask school to assure you they are putting things in place to protect your child .

You need to speak to the police. You will help the school by doing so as well. Why wouldn't you tell the police when your child is being threatened with violence?

Has the school got a community policeman assigned to it ? Ring your local police station and find out who it is . Explain the situation and see if he / she can step in and do something.