Private v state

[Icantthinkofaname12345]

Options
A. Live in Clacks and send p6 and p7 to Dollar Academy.
B. Move to Bearsden area and send to Bearsden Academy when their time comes.

Does anyone have any advice. Both children v sporty, academic however currently a little bored as there isn’t much of a challenge at school any more .. I would prefer to live West than East but open to suggestions. I can’t decide if private is worth the money or not as I do not know anyone whose kids attend private.

Thank you.

It's not just about schools though is it?

We live in Bearsden and we're really happy with the school. Two kids left already, one still in the school. The catchment area is on the edge of a large city with all the amenities and challenges which come with that. Clackmannanshire/Dollar is much more rural.

You have to find the right school for your kids but also the right place to live for your lifestyle. Pressure on school places at Bearsden Academy mean property here sells really quick and prices are high.

Other than a feeling they could be pushed harder,
State primary has essentially gone fine? Proximity to a city and navigating under your own steam are important life skills for children as well as much easier for parents.

It'd be a no brainier for me state, proximity to city and hire a tutor in their favourite couple of subjects they like to push them and save yourself a fortune.

My kids were/are at Bearsden AcademyIt has been a great school and both my kids have done very well. They're both academic and have achieved fantastic grades. The sporting facilities are bound to be rubbish compared to Dollar but Bearsden has every sports club you could wish for including a ski centre right across the road (the Bearsden Academy ski time are very successful). Having very easy access to countryside which is great for running, biking, wild swimming etc as well as train station straight into town makes it a fantastic place to bring up sporty kids.

I've seen both sides. Much depends on the state school. Ideally check what communication is like - will you receive the info you need to spot a problem early enough to use tutors etc to bump up grades where your kid has a weakness or where the teacher isn't very good. Are academically inclined children achieving good results? In a catchment like Bearsden the results for highers and advanced highers should be very good. What about subject choices? Good range? Possibility of studying at least two modern languages or three sciences if your child is so inclined?
If you're happy with all of that, then the main things private Ed gives you is a choice of peer group. Generally state schools are very restricted now in how they deal with bad behaviour- whereas with (some- not all) private schools , it's behave or you're out. Also you generally get a peer group where being clever and working hard are seen as good things - you're buying a culture. That said, many good state schools have a positive culture too - you need to dig to find out.

Thank you for the replies. I have knowledge of both areas but not the actual schools. Any insight is very helpful. We spend a lot of time in the West therefore I feel more drawn there. The bad (violent)behaviour that seems to be tolerated now is the reason for this change .. it has become daily and normalised.
Thanks again.

As far as the school goes, we have all been very happy. The teachers have all been very supportive and engaged. I feel my kids were enabled to achieve rather than pushed in a stressful way. Teachers always given lots of time and support out of school hours with supported study groups, extra curricular etc. There is the odd story of bad behaviour and drugs etc but I hear all the same stories from the private sector. Friends who sent their kids to local private schools don't seem to have given their kids any advantage over mine, mine are at prestigious universities on very competitive courses. No school is perfect but generally very happy with Bearsden Academy.

Agree that there is the odd report of bad behaviour but nothing violent reported from my kids.

I can’t decide if private is worth the money or not as I do not know anyone whose kids attend private.

It really depends on the child and the school, and what you're looking for in terms of educational experience.
My kids have experience of both sectors. Differences we have found in the private school versus our local state school -

Class sizes much smaller, 15 or 16 (often less) in a Nat 5 and Higher class, teachers know children very well,
Very little disruption in class,
Much narrower range of abilities so class can move at faster pace,
Subjects at H and AH will run even if only 1 or 2 people want to take it,
If I contact school with an issue they will respond within 24 hrs,
Eldest now at Uni and 95% of year went to university as opposed to about 30% from local state school,
Much more emphasis on everyone taking up clubs/interests, expected to sign up to 2 clubs every term,
Mine have been pushed outside their comfort zone much more in the private school as there's many more activities which are not optional and everyone expected to do them. One of mine is definitely a lot more resilient now!

Only you as a parent can decide if any of this is likely to benefit your child significantly, taking into account what your local state school offers

You've got to consider what else you could use the money for too and what that could do for you as a family in terms of retirement, holidays, university funds etc.

Tutoring if you can find the right person can add so much confidence and interest, I wouldn't leave it for struggling subjects - a lot of research says focus on what they're good at rather than trying to improve grades where they have less talent.

Sympathise on the violence, mine weren't coping in state so we moved them as we are all miserable day to day so it wasn't marginal.

You have time to try your state secondary option and move later? People move in and out of
Private and other schools every year. Good luck!

All good points for me to think about. I do like the idea of them being pushed on and I think they would benefit from that. I have considered state school then another move if necessary but would prefer to avoid doing that. Lots to think about. Ultimately I want a school without daily outbursts of chairs being thrown around and walls kicked in.

Can definitely reassure that chairs being thrown and walls being kicked in is not a regular occurrence at Bearsden Academy.

Agree, @namechange9876543212 .

We live in a good state schooling area ( not Bearsden) and opted for independent. The culture is so different, facilities for a (very) sporty child, support for learning (dyslexia) that weren't adequately supported in state are all huge advantages. We needed a gentle expectation for our child from the school to try their best and the school delivers on that. The teacher just didn’t have the time do get that across at state as they were too busy with large class sizes and the challenges that comes with. There was a lot of disillusionment and distraction in the old school. Dollar seems really impressive, I’ve spoken to lots of parents at sports and they were all very happy.

I would imagine the cost of buying a similar house in Bearsden plus LBTT (stamp duty) may fund a significant part of school fees. That said, you will always that the Bearsden house value in the future.

There is a massive drive by many universities to widen their access and hence they are more likely to offer places to state school pupils rather than private school pupils these days. Not that I particularly agree with positive discrimination but it's certainly what I am hearing. For that reason I think I'd favour a good state school.

I would imagine the cost of buying a similar house in Bearsden plus LBTT (stamp duty) may fund a significant part of school fees. That said, you will always that the Bearsden house value in the future.

It's definitely a thing that houses in catchment for a high-performing school command a premium. Not just in Bearsden/Milngavie but in parts of Edinburgh and East Renfrewshire too. The most common opening Rightmove phrase round here is "3 bed semi in catchment for X school".

I'm not anti-private, not at all. Had we lived elsewhere our kids would be in the private sector. I was that bright child in a bog standard comp and it was horrendous until all the neds left at the end of S4. I do struggle to understand though why someone is happy to pay twice - expensive house in catchment for a desirable school, and then £13k a year on fees. Their money though.

But as I said upthread it's not JUST about schools, it's a whole lifestyle thing. Rural v suburban, west v east. Lots of things to consider.

OP, I can give you some insight to Dollar Academy if that would help? I have zero knowledge of Bearsden academy.

Both my DC went to Dollar, the youngest leaving two years ago. Have you been through the entrance process for this year or are you thinking about the future? The entry points you mention ( J1 and J2) are a good idea. The existing children will have moved up from prep school and more classes of new pupils are added, so your children would be joining in a large group of new intake.

Dollar’s facilities are quite impressive and their list of extra curricular clubs equally so, I’m not sure there is not much they don’t offer or can arrange. The grounds as I’m sure you are aware are large and beautifully kept.

Academically it does extremely well. It does not stream out pupils at senior school entry, so if attending before this stage a child will automatically move through the school. Academically children are challenged and there is a lot of flexibility when choosing NAT 5, higher and advanced higher options. It is quite competitive academically, which is a positive and negative. Children do tend to strive to do well and for those not always achieving that level it can been challenging.

Discipline is as you would expect not an issue and unruly children are dealt with quickly and appropriately. That does mean there are zero issues, there are of course and like all schools incidents of bullying do occur, but in my experience are dealt with. In the time my DC attended and I know of a handful of pupils that were asked to leave due to their behaviour.

Some locals have a poor opinion of the school and view it with a certain level of hostility, and will given the opportunity criticise the pupils behaviour for being elitist. There are obviously some parents/children which fall into this category but most don’t.

On the whole we were vey happy with the school, my DC gained entry to the university/ course of their choice, but so did their state educated friends. It is a financial burden (c250k). If I had the time again and the option of moving to the catchment area with an excellent state school, I’m not sure what I would do.

The way uni entrance works now in Scotland you are much better buying a house in a low simd area and going to dollar than living in the bearsden catchment.

The difference in grades needed for uni are huge.

You could be throwing away your DCs future if you don't understand this new system.

So @Aphrathestorm does the school not matter? Is it only the area you live in?

Thanks again for the replies and for the info on Dollar. I know university is important however my main goal is for them to feel safe and to thrive at whatever their interests are. I realise my own background can make me feel like an imposter almost and I wouldn’t like my children to be thought of as elitist but that’s my issue to deal with.

If you are in the bottom 20% SIMD the school you attend doesnt matter.

So DCs at private schools who live in very deprived postcodes need much lower grades for uni entrance than those in average postcodes in average schools. (Or poor performing schools)

I'm not sure you can resolve all trade offs but choosing on the key issues - the university one is yet another one to consider! As is feeling like an impostor and guilty for your choices.

My DC reported some of the behaviour you have described to me in their upper years of primary school (chairs thrown, tables knocked over). When they went up to High School there didn't seem to be any of this behaviour. I'm not sure why this is, possibly because the high school have different methods of dealing with behaviour. It means that I wouldn't assume that because there is bad behaviour in primary school this will be replicated in high school.

We chose to send our DC to state school but supplement with tutors. One advantage of tutors is that they can give one to one attention which isn't possible even in a private school. The DC will however not have the same social connections though that they would gain at private school. The financial savings mean we can help out with deposits for property as we couldn't afford both private school and house deposits. If money had been no object we would probably have gone for private education.